#47769 - 07/07/06 08:49 AM
Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
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Anonymous
Anonymous
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Consider John 6:28-29 "Then said they to him, What shall we do, that we may work the works of God? Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."
Dissent From Darwin “Goes Global” as Over 600 Scientists From Around the World Express Their Doubts About Darwin’s Theory
During recent decades, new scientific evidence from many scientific disciplines such as cosmology, physics, biology, "artificial intelligence" research, and others have caused scientists to begin questioning Darwinism's central tenet of natural selection and studying the evidence supporting it in greater detail.
Yet public TV programs, educational policy statements, and science textbooks have asserted that Darwin's theory of evolution fully explains the complexity of living things. The public has been assured that all known evidence supports Darwinism and that virtually every scientist in the world believes the theory to be true.
The scientists on this list dispute the first claim and stand as living testimony in contradiction to the second. Since Discovery Institute launched this list in 2001 over 500 scientists have courageously stepped forward to sign their names. The list is growing and includes scientists from the US National Academy of Sciences, Russian, Polish and Czech National Academies, as well as from universities such as Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and others.
A Scientific Dissent From Darwinism
"We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."
The arguments that ultimately unravel the Darwinian synthesis aren't terribly difficult to grasp. Anyone who remembers the rudiments of logic they learned in freshman composition can follow the essentials of the argument. Below are three articles to get started:
Fact Sheet: Microevolution vs. Macroevolution
web page
The Survival of the Fakest web page
Global dissent (Over) 600 Scientists From Around the World Express Their Doubts About Darwin's "Theory"
EATTLE — Over 600 doctoral scientists from around the world have now signed a statement publicly expressing their skepticism about the contemporary theory of Darwinian evolution. The statement, located online at http://www.dissentfromdarwin.org, reads: “We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged.”
The fastest growing segment of the list is scientists from outside the United States. International scientists now represent just over 12% of all signers, and as a group has seen nearly 40% growth in the past four months.
“I signed the Scientific Dissent From Darwinism statement, because I am absolutely convinced of the lack of true scientific evidence in favour of Darwinian dogma,” said Raul Leguizamon, M. D., Pathologist, and a professor of medicine at the Autonomous University of Guadalajara, Mexico.
“Nobody in the biological sciences, medicine included, needs Darwinism at all,” added Leguizamon. “Darwinism is certainly needed, however, in order to pose as a philosopher, since it is primarily a worldview. And an awful one, as Bernard Shaw used to say.”
The list of 610 signatories includes member scientists from National Academies of Science in Russia, Czech Republic, Hungary, India (Hindustan), Nigeria, Poland, Russia and the United States. Many of the signers are professors or researchers at major universities and international research institutions such as Cambridge University, British Museum of Natural History, Moscow State University, Masaryk University in Czech Republic, Hong Kong University, University of Turku in Finland, Autonomous University of Guadalajara in Mexico, University of Stellenbosch in South Africa, Institut de Paléontologie Humaine in France, Chitose Institute of Science & Technology in Japan, Ben-Gurion University in Israel, MIT, The Smithsonian and Princeton.
“Dissent from Darwinism has gone global,” said Discovery Institute President Bruce Chapman, former US Ambassador to the United Nations in Vienna. “Darwinists used to claim that virtually every scientist in the world held that Darwinian evolution was true, but we quickly started finding US scientists that disproved that statement. Now we’re finding that there are hundreds, and probably thousands, of scientists all over the world that don’t subscribe to Darwin’s theory.”
Discovery Institute first published its Scientific Dissent From Darwinism list in 2001 to challenge false statements about Darwinian evolution made in promoting PBS’s “Evolution” series. At the time it was claimed that “virtually every scientist in the world believes the theory to be true.”
Prominent signatories include U.S. National Academy of Sciences member Philip Skell; American Association for the Advancement of Science Fellow Lyle Jensen; evolutionary biologist and textbook author Stanley Salthe; Smithsonian Institution evolutionary biologist and a researcher at the National Institutes of Health’s National Center for Biotechnology Information Richard von Sternberg; Editor of Rivista di Biologia / Biology Forum --the oldest still published biology journal in the world-- Giuseppe Sermonti; and Russian Academy of Natural Sciences embryologist Lev Beloussov.
###
a PDF copy of the Scientific Dissent From Darwinism list web page
Remember, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).
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#47770 - 07/07/06 09:16 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
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SteveGIMP
Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 7672
Loc: The Great Lakes State
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Convenient how these creation "scientists" refute Darwin, claiming a "lack of true scientific evidence" and dismiss it as just "primarily a worldview," yet they swallow the Bible and Christian worldview without question.
Even if Darwin was full of shit, it doesn't make your god any more real.
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#47771 - 07/07/06 09:32 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Wow - 600 scientists worldwide. That's a tremendous number, considering there are at least hundreds of thousands of scientists. Looks like they'll all be rejecting Darwin any day now. (insert extreme irony icon here)
"We are skeptical of claims for the ability of creation science to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for solely Biblical-based creation theory should be encouraged."
I wonder how many scientists world-wide would agree with the above statement? More than 600, I bet.
Edited to add: Lightning, you sound a lot like an old buddy of mine who used to post here. He called himself Truthteller. Any connection?
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#47772 - 07/07/06 09:41 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
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SteveGIMP
Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 7672
Loc: The Great Lakes State
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"I am absolutely convinced of the lack of true scientific evidence in favour of Christian dogma.”
“Nobody in the biological sciences, medicine included, needs Christianity at all.”
“Christianity is certainly needed, however, in order to pose as a philosopher, since it is primarily a worldview."
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#47773 - 07/07/06 10:13 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
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StarlightAngel
Member
Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
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Originally posted by SteveGIMP:
Even if Darwin was full of shit, it doesn't make your god any more real.
the article is basically just discovery institute PR.
Dissent From Darwin “Goes Global” as Over 600 Scientists From Around the World Express Their Doubts About Darwin’s Theory
"We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."
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#47774 - 07/07/06 12:58 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Evolution is the biggest false religion there is next to Islam!
Paul
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#165245 - 10/04/09 02:39 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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First ape woman suggests human ancestors may have started walking in pursuit of sex
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
Last updated at 4:43 PM on 02nd October 2009
She lived at the dawn of a new era, when chimps and people began walking (or climbing) along their own evolutionary trails. This is Ardi - the oldest member of the human family tree we've found so far.
Short, hairy and with long arms, she roamed the forests of Africa 4.4million years ago.
Her discovery, reported in detail for the first time today, sheds light on a crucial period when we were just leaving the trees. Some scientists said she could provide evidence that our ancestors first started walking upright in the pursuit of sex.
Ardi's skeleton (left) revealed she was 4ft tall and weighed 7st 12oz
Enlarge
Conventional wisdom says our earliest ancestors first stood up on two legs when they moved out of the forest and into the open savannas. But this does not explain why Ardi's species was bipedal (able to walk on two legs) while still living partly in the trees.
Owen Lovejoy from Kent State University said the answer could be as simple as food and sex.
He pointed out that throughout evolution males have fought with other males for the right to mate with fertile females. Therefore you would expect dominant males with big fierce canines to pass their genes down the generations.
But say a lesser male, with small stubby teeth realised he could entice a fertile female into mating by bringing her some food? Males would be far more successful food-providers if they had their hands free to carry home items like fruit and roots if they walked on two legs.
Mr Lovejoy said this could explain why males from Ardi's species had small canines and stood upright - it was all in the pursuit of sex.
He added that it could also suggest that monogamous relationships may be far older than was first thought.
Ardi - short for Ardipithecus ramidus or 'root of the ground ape' - stood 4ft tall and weighed 110lb.
She lived a million years before the famous Lucy, the previous earliest skeleton of a hominid who was dug up in 1974.
Experts believe Ardi is very, very close to the 'missing link' common ancestor of humans and chimps, thought to have lived five to seven million years ago.
'This is not that common ancestor, but it's the closest we have ever been able to come,' said Dr Tim White, director of the Human Evolution Research Centre at the University of California, Berkeley, who reports the discovery today in Science. The first fossilised and crushed bones of Ardi were found in 1994 in Ethiopia's Afar Rift.
But it has taken an international team of 47 scientists 17 years to piece together, analyse and describe the remains.
More...
Face in the sand: British team unearths Roman amphitheatre at ancient port
Ardi's skeleton had been trampled and scattered, while the skull was crushed to just two inches in height.
Despite this, Dr David Pilbeam, curator of palaeoanthropology at Harvard's Peabody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology said: 'This is one of the most important discoveries for the study of human evolution.
'It is relatively complete in that it preserves head, hands, feet, and some critical parts in between.'
Enlarge
Enlarge
Digital representations of Ardi's skull (left) and hand (right)
Researchers have pieced together 125 fragments of bone - including much of her skull, hands, feet, arms, legs and pelvis - which were dated using the volcanic layers of soil above and below the find.
The results were surprising. Previously, scientists believed that our common ancestor would have been very chimp-like, and that ancient hominids such as Ardi would still have much in common with them.
But she was not suited like a modern- day chimp to swinging or hanging from trees or walking on her knuckles.
This suggests that chimps and gorillas developed those characteristics after the split with humans - challenging the idea that they are merely an 'unevolved' version of us.
Analysis of the ape skeleton of Ardi, found in Ethiopia in 1994, reveals humans and chimps evolved separately from a common ancestor
Ardipithecus ramidus
- Volcanic layers around the fossil were used to date it from 4.4million years ago
- Ardi's upper canine teeth are more similar to stubby human teeth than sharp chimpanzee teeth
- Tooth enamel analysis revealed they ate fruit, nuts and leaves
- Ardi's brain was positioned in a similar way to that of humans
- Pelvis and hip show the gluteal muscles were positioned so she could walk upright
Ardi's feet were rigid enough to allow her to walk upright some of the time, but she still had a grasping big toe for use in climbing trees.
And she had long arms but short palms and fingers which were flexible, allowing her to support her body weight on her palms.
Her upper canine teeth are more like the stubby teeth of modern people than the long, sharp ones of chimps. An analysis of her tooth enamel suggests she ate fruit, nuts and leaves.
Scientists believe she was a female because her skull is relatively small and lightly built. Her teeth were also smaller than other members of the same family that were found later.
Alan Walker, of Pennsylvania Sate University, told Science: 'These things were very odd creatures. You know what Tim (White) once said: 'If you wanted to find something that moved like these things you'd have to go to the bar in Star Wars'.'
Since the discovery, scientists have unearthed another 35 members of the Ardipithecus family.
Ardi was found in alongside crumbling fossils of 29 species of birds and 20 species of small mammals - including owls, parrots, shrews, bats and mice.
Lucy, also found in Africa, thrived a million years after Ardi and was of the more human-like genus Australopithecus.
'In Ardipithecus we have an unspecialized form that hasn't evolved very far in the direction of Australopithecus. So when you go from head to toe, you're seeing a mosaic creature that is neither chimpanzee, nor is it human. It is Ardipithecus,' said Dr White.
How Ardipithecus fits into humankind's evolutionary path
He noted that Charles Darwin, whose research in the 19th century paved the way for the science of evolution, was cautious about the last common ancestor between humans and apes.
'Darwin said we have to be really careful. The only way we're really going to know what this last common ancestor looked like is to go and find it. Well, at 4.4 million years ago we found something pretty close to it,' Dr White added.
'And, just like Darwin appreciated, evolution of the ape lineages and the human lineage has been going on independently since the time those lines split, since that last common ancestor we shared.'
Some details about Ardi in the collection of papers:
- Ardi was found in Ethiopia's Afar Rift, where many fossils of ancient plants and animals have been discovered. Findings near the skeleton indicate that at the time it was a wooded environment. Fossils of 29 species of birds and 20 species of small mammals were found at the site.
- Geologist Giday WoldeGabriel of Los Alamos National Laboratory was able to use volcanic layers above and below the fossil to date it to 4.4 million years ago.
- Paleoanthropologist Gen Suwa of the University of Tokyo reported that Ardi's face had a projecting muzzle, giving her an ape-like appearance. But it didn't thrust forward quite as much as the lower faces of modern African apes do.
Some features of her skull, such as the ridge above the eye socket, are quite different from those of chimpanzees.
The details of the bottom of the skull, where nerves and blood vessels enter the brain, indicate that Ardi's brain was positioned in a way similar to modern humans, possibly suggesting that the hominid brain may have been already poised to expand areas involving aspects of visual and spatial perception.
The first signs of Ardi were discovered in Middle Awash, a desert site that would have been much wetter, teeming with animal life and thickly covered with trees 4 million years ago. A graduate student from the University of California at Berkley found two finger bones. Further excavation turned up pieces of pelvis, feet, hands and skull. By the end of three years, scientists realised they'd found a paleontological treasure.
The search continues for the 'last common ancestor' from which both modern humans and modern chimpanzees can trace their ancestry.
Many experts think the common ancestor lived at least 7 million years ago.
Research on Ardi suggests that this ancestor didn't look nearly as much like a modern chimpanzee as had been previously suspected.
This suggests that chimpanzees have themselves evolved significantly.
For more information visit http://www.sciencemag.org
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/a...l#ixzz0T0AKYGOz
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#165362 - 10/05/09 11:23 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: MerryA]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Evolution makes more sense than the idea that two physically perfect human specimens were placed on the planet and they being the horny little devils they were managed to populate an entire planet.
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#165373 - 10/05/09 11:36 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: ParaDude]
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Wabisan
Member
Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 5136
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The nuns never did tell us how they managed to accomplish that without committing an even greater sin.
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"I insist on Moscow Rules"
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#165462 - 10/05/09 02:13 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: Wabisan]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Jesus said it best, "Let the dead bury the dead and the blind lead the blind." Evolution believers just place their ancestry to the apes while religion places their ancestry to an intelligent beautiful eternal God. I prefer God to hairy beasty apes. But it is a personal preference and one which cannot be proven to another to any satisfaction.
Paul
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#165463 - 10/05/09 02:17 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Wabisan
Member
Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 5136
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The whole thing was explained in Planet of the Apes.
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"I insist on Moscow Rules"
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#165466 - 10/05/09 02:25 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: Wabisan]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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:-)
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#165468 - 10/05/09 02:36 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: Wabisan]
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Paul I
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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This article is bsed on great speculation and incorrect info.
No anthropoloigist has been so bold as to say this proves anything. They are still trying to piece together the meanings
of the varios bone structures. The Daily Mail looks like fun read.
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"...only the shadow knows"
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#165519 - 10/05/09 08:05 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: Wabisan]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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The nuns never did tell us how they managed to accomplish that without committing an even greater sin.
What sin would that be Wabi?
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#165535 - 10/06/09 05:41 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: Davyd]
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Wabisan
Member
Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 5136
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Incest?
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"I insist on Moscow Rules"
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#165561 - 10/06/09 10:36 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: Wabisan]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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So you believe incest has always been sinful?
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#165562 - 10/06/09 10:38 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: ævory]
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starlight.2
Member
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 796
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First ape woman suggests human ancestors may have started walking in pursuit of sex
see what people can accomplished when there's sex involved?
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Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace.
--Dalai Lama
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#165568 - 10/06/09 11:02 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: starlight.2]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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First ape woman suggests human ancestors may have started walking in pursuit of sex
see what people can accomplished when there's sex involved?
Puts a whole new meaning to the term, "walking erect".
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#165608 - 10/06/09 01:15 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: ParaDude]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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All the gifts God gave mankind has been totally corrupted by satan and his sin.
Paul
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#165617 - 10/06/09 01:56 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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All the gifts God gave mankind has been totally corrupted by satan and his sin.
Paul
Satan, the far from original boogie man.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#165619 - 10/06/09 02:10 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: Wabisan]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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There was a boogie man prior to Satan?
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#165653 - 10/06/09 04:41 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Johnboy 64
Member
Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 15944
Loc: a nice place
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come on paulwa evolution is part of life... look at bacteria becoming antibiotic resistant...
how about dioecious(sp?) trees?
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#165654 - 10/06/09 04:50 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: Davyd]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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There was a boogie man prior to Satan?
Sure. Every religion had it's boogie man, and they were likely around before religion to keep ppl in check.
_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#165657 - 10/06/09 05:03 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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There was a boogie man prior to Satan? Sure. Every religion had it's boogie man, and they were likely around before religion to keep ppl in check.
I thought that's why liberals had goverment? To keep those who disagree with them in check.
Edited by Davyd (10/06/09 05:04 PM)
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#165658 - 10/06/09 05:05 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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There was a boogie man prior to Satan? Sure. Every religion had it's boogie man, and they were likely around before religion to keep ppl in check. I thought that's why liberals had goverment? To keep those who disagree with them in check.
Man, you are so far above your pay grade...lol
_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#165660 - 10/06/09 05:13 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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I just don't get no respect.
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#165663 - 10/06/09 05:43 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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inkblister
Member
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 231
Loc: Land of Debris...
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It seemed so plausible
Drugs and evolution
Why is it that creationists seem to be the least evolved?
-Bill Hicks
Edited by inkblister (10/06/09 05:48 PM)
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I'm not outnumbered... I have a wide target selection...
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#165666 - 10/06/09 06:26 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: inkblister]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Gotta wonder what makes bill so damn judgemental?
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#165667 - 10/06/09 07:00 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Johnboy Micro evolution works within species but Macro, evolvement from lower specie to higher different specie has never worked and thereis nothing to prove it ever happened in the past. Evolutionist scientists take that idea totally on faith. It is not even a theory because science does not support it.
Paul
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#165671 - 10/06/09 07:56 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Johnboy 64
Member
Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 15944
Loc: a nice place
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Johnboy Micro evolution works within species but Macro, evolvement from lower specie to higher different specie has never worked and thereis nothing to prove it ever happened in the past. Evolutionist scientists take that idea totally on faith. It is not even a theory because science does not support it.
Paul
humans are evolving... look how tall we are now...
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#165672 - 10/06/09 08:51 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Johnboy 64]
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Paul I
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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Macroevolution is what Darwin's theories were all about. Microevolution may actually produce a new species. It's all about time. If you can conceive of the 4 million years man has been evolving that's nearly 270,000 generations. That's 1000 times as long as Fundamentalists claim for the age of the earth.Look how hummans have changed in the last 10,000 years.
Davyd, liberals are to libertarians as a compass is to a ship.
Our libertarian Legislature actually tried to sell all the Stste buildings. They do not believe in public schools and most of them are actually dumb. It is a political philosophy that got us to the golden spike but is now impractical. I excuse you as these
little pockets of Ayn Rand pop up priodically over time.
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"...only the shadow knows"
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#165679 - 10/06/09 10:56 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paul I]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Davyd, liberals are to libertarians as a compass is to a ship.
Our libertarian Legislature actually tried to sell all the Stste buildings. They do not believe in public schools and most of them are actually dumb. It is a political philosophy that got us to the golden spike but is now impractical. I excuse you as these
little pockets of Ayn Rand pop up priodically over time.
Yes Paul I understand that you, like shakester, being a liberal believe that your thoughts and beliefs are far superior to mere humans.
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#165685 - 10/07/09 01:26 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Johnboy Micro evolution works within species but Macro, evolvement from lower specie to higher different specie has never worked and thereis nothing to prove it ever happened in the past. Evolutionist scientists take that idea totally on faith. It is not even a theory because science does not support it.
Paul
Paulwa, you are sadly misinformed about the so-called "macro" evolution. It's just "?micro" evolution extended over millions and billions of years. They're the same thing, the only difference being the time factor.
It isn't true that there is no evidence of one species morphing into another. The fossil record shows thousands of intermediate forms along the pathway of major changes in many species. New ones are being found all the time.
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#165727 - 10/07/09 11:04 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Name one proven intermediary, Ghoti. I am not wrong about Micro and Macro. Macro is evolutionery nonsense and has not a leg to stand on..Not even an apes.
Paul
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#165729 - 10/07/09 11:09 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Humans have always been humans and always will be. We may change or mutate zillions of times but we will always be human. DNA experiments could change a species drastically though but it has never happened in nature that I am aware of. Micro-evolution is a fact but it never changes one species to a new species. That takes Macro-evolution, but that is evolutionery fiction put on by scientist out to prove there is no creator. They will NEVER prove it to be a working theory. It is a bad hypothesis if that.
Paul
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#165733 - 10/07/09 11:27 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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lmfao...gotta admire your tenacity...I think...lol. Paul, you don't have a leg to stand on just like the creation "scientists" you love.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#165742 - 10/07/09 11:46 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Shakey whydo you think evolution exists. What proof have you seen? Or do you just accept the textbooks at their word? I have seen a great many of evolution facts totally dispelled by creation scientists and evolution cannot stand any real scrutiny. I think you are anti creator and so just acceptthe viewpoints of Darwin because it is a way to take Godout of the picture. I think there is a greatmany peoplelike you who choose evolution for just that reason.
Pau
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#165749 - 10/07/09 12:11 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Paul, the evidence is overwhelming. You just refuse to accept it. The proof is everywhere, and you refuse to see it.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#165789 - 10/07/09 05:13 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I've looked and i have never seen any proof. I didn't seen any true proof when I took Biology in college either. It as I suspected You just accept the anti God rhetoric because itfits your values better.
Paul
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#165792 - 10/07/09 05:22 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Oh Paul, you are hopeless...lol You assign your mindless acceptance to me when you have no idea what my values are.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#165797 - 10/07/09 05:45 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Iliveby faith. You live by scientific proof. When you get some come on back and we'll talk.
Paul
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#165828 - 10/07/09 09:40 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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I have tons your closed mind will not accept.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#165830 - 10/07/09 10:11 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paul I
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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Paul, consider that you and some friends are taking a float plane into Alaska for some hunting or fishing. Blizzard comes up and plane force lands in a open but succluded area. Some of your friends are desk jockies, one is an auto mechanic, one's a gym teacher.. You'er all about 23. After two months only one of you has survived. A search plane sees him and brings him in. Why did he survive? Somehow his physical and mental state was more durable than his friends. Shortly after he marries, has three kids and so on. That which helped him survive is passed to his kids. His friends never have this possibility. so generally speaking those who are the most capable have a greater chance to reproduce. Over thousands of years humans become "better" be it physically or mentally. All those tiny micro recombinatios or mutations accumulate to produce change. Neanderthal man existed only 10-20 thousand years ago- a short time to the scientist.
Otherw living around him, more advanced humans, eventually
destroyed this sub species of humanoids. Other examples are endless- skin color , physique, height, sickle cell anemia, some disease resistance, Get how it works? It's all time.
Incidently, Man could not have evolved from apes as one can't evolve from something existing now. We may have had common ancestors but that was millions of years ago.
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"...only the shadow knows"
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#165832 - 10/07/09 11:33 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paul I]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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That is micro evolution Paul and it is true. There is no macro evolution where one specie changes to another.
As far as a common ancestor is concerned look at the fossil records. Darwin had a tree of life shaped similar to a hand. A wrist with hand and extending fingers to show diversity of evolution. The fossil record shows small sea creatures in the beginning and many eons later mammal life burst on the scene all at once all in their own specie like an explosion of life. Creation by God had just occurred. That hand represents in its lower portion small cellular life and small molusc like life. The going up the hand it is nearly at the tip of the fingers when all species suddenly occur simultaneously almost. This is what scientists working in the field have discovered.
Paul
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#165833 - 10/07/09 11:34 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Show me Shakey. leave out the text books they have been found to be full of errors. Isn't that why you kind of reject the bible..because of what you perceive to be errors?
Paul
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#165836 - 10/08/09 01:42 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Name one proven intermediary, Ghoti. I am not wrong about Micro and Macro. Macro is evolutionery nonsense and has not a leg to stand on..Not even an apes.
Paul
That's an easy one, Paulwa. Surely you've heard of Archaeopteryx . The first fossils of it were found over 150 years ago.
Archaeopteryx looks like a modern bird at first glance with wings and feathers, but it has teeth instead of a beak and has claws at the end of its wings and a long tail.. It's clearly an intermediate form between dinosaurs and modern birds.
The fossil record shows THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of similar intermediate forms between species that are clear proof of a new species in the process of evolving from an earlier one.
You are obviously in denial since evolution is incompatible with your interpretation of the Bible. I seriously doubt that any amount of evidence would change your mind.
Nearly ALL Christian denominations have come to accept evolution as a fact. It's only the most extreme fundamentalists that refuse to see reality.
Edited by ghoti (10/08/09 05:07 AM)
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#165869 - 10/08/09 11:43 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Sir Ghoti just showed you Paul. None are so blind...
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#165877 - 10/08/09 12:21 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Do not believe archy was an intermediate but only an early specie that died out, he didn't look like a stable life form anyway.Where are these other thousands of intermediates you speak of? Lets take alook at them. Probably some of them were brought back from the brink by the evidence of something as simple as a pigs tooth representing early man. None of those so called thousands, Ghoti will stand up under the light of scrutiny and you know it if you have studied the facts.
Where is your so called proofs Shakey?
I have seen the evidences presented and refuted by top scientists with their very persuasive arguments.Yes they were creationists but I agree with their findings as any one would who was fair minded. Why would I listen to the evolutionjary scientists with their ifs, ands and may have and maybe's to prove their arguments.
You are absolutely right Shakey, none are so blind as those who refuse a God who created all and turned down all the evidence for it right under their blind eyes.
Paul
Edited by Paulwa_dup1 (10/08/09 12:24 PM)
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#165887 - 10/08/09 01:26 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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There is no such thing as a creationist who is a "top scientist."
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
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#165908 - 10/08/09 07:27 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: MerryA]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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The very first post of this thread claimed that there are over 600 scientists throughout the world who have doubts abut evolution. I did a little research and found that there are 480,000 scientists in the US alone, let alone the entire world.
So where does that leave those 600 doubters among the community of scientists? Since there surely must be at least a million scientists world-wide, those 600 add up to less than 1 tenth of 1% of the global family of scientists.
Among people who have examined all the evidence with an open mind there is no doubt that evolution is a PROVEN FACT and not "just a theory".
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#165911 - 10/08/09 11:14 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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How would you be privy to such scientific info, MerryA??
It is not even a hypothesus on Newtons nose, Ghoti but there are many foolhardy believers of Darwin around and the proof will bowl all of your so called scientists over as fools soon, Ghoti. Till then y'all canbelieve whatever flimsy evidence you have for evolution. If I was going to be around here after the rapture I would make you a very nice bet but it won't matter you are welcome to every bit of money we have and anything else youlike because I won't be needing it any longer.
Paul
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#165935 - 10/09/09 07:36 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Paulwa, I gave you the example you requested and yet you still reject evolution. Would 1000 examples change your mind?
You've made up your mind that there is a basic conflict between the concept of evolution and your theology and will stick to your position no matter how much contrary evidence could be provided. That's too bad, since it closes your mind to seeing new things.
IMO science is the best possible way to truly appreciate the glory of the creator. Tying your thinking to ancient texts instead of opening your mind to new information is intellectual stagnation rather growth, and I refuse to do so.
You're putting all your theological eggs into one very small basket, and for your sake I hope you're right or you may find the afterlife a bitter shock.
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#166045 - 10/09/09 02:49 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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ghoti I will go with god's word and no other.
Paul
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#166056 - 10/09/09 03:00 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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ghoti I will go with god's word and no other.
Paul
But only if God's word is interpreted in your own special way. 
God created evolution.
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
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#166066 - 10/09/09 03:10 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: MerryA]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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ghoti I will go with god's word and no other.
Paul But only if God's word is interpreted in your own special way. God created evolution.
And man created God :p
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#166068 - 10/09/09 03:11 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Wabisan
Member
Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 5136
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Are you an atheist, Shakey?
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"I insist on Moscow Rules"
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#166069 - 10/09/09 03:13 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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ghoti I will go with god's word and no other.
Paul But only if God's word is interpreted in your own special way. God created evolution. And man created God :p
But, God may have told him to do it 
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#166071 - 10/09/09 03:16 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Wabisan]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Are you an atheist, Shakey?
Thought you already labeled me an asshole...lol
I'm undecided. Very valid arguments for many views on God. Have yet to accept any position.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#166072 - 10/09/09 03:18 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Wabisan
Member
Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 5136
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No connection between the two is implied or inferred.
I've come across more than a few atheists. You are the only one (if indeed you are one) who saw fit to make fun of others' beliefs.
Edited by Wabisan (10/09/09 03:19 PM)
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"I insist on Moscow Rules"
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#166074 - 10/09/09 03:20 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Wabisan]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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I only make fun of those who confuse faith with fact. You wouldn't happen to be one of those idiots, would ya?
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#166078 - 10/09/09 03:26 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Wabisan
Member
Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 5136
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I don't have any problem with believing in God the creator and evolution at the same time.
Since faith is faith, in the view of the believer, it negates some fact. For example, I as a Christian believe that Jesus is the son of God. To me that is a fact. A Jew's faith tells him that this is not so. That is his fact. Is he confusing fact with faith, or am I, or is neither of us, because faith lives on a plane of existence apart from that of fact?
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"I insist on Moscow Rules"
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#166083 - 10/09/09 03:36 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Wabisan]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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See that's where you and all of the devout are wrong. Your faith does not equal fact. It is just faith. Turning it into fact is a large part of the reason we have so much conflict over faith.
I'll agree with a different plane of existence, a theoretical plane. That in no way diminishes any faith. See yours is no better than his. They are all just faith. The fact of faith or no faith can only be learned at death.
I do enjoy making fun of those who claim god like abilities, like knowing the facts abt god.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#166087 - 10/09/09 03:49 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Wabisan
Member
Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 5136
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I would hardly classify myself as "devout". Every person who considers himself a Christian considers it a fact that Jesus Christ is the son of God. Otherwise he would not be a Christian.
I do enjoy making fun of those who claim god like abilities, like knowing the facts abt god.
You would come across as a lot more fair and balanced if you started making as much fun of Muslims, for some of whom it is an act of faith to kill you for not accepting Mohammed, as you do of Christians.
Edited by Wabisan (10/09/09 03:50 PM)
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#166090 - 10/09/09 04:07 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Wabisan]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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If that is a fact in your world, you are delusional just like the Muslims you want me to include.
When you become rational, I'll begin to consider your advice.
I respect all faiths. When their faith become facts to the devout they lose my respect because that is impossible and highly dangerous to we few remaining rational souls on this planet.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#166094 - 10/09/09 04:38 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I take my faith from God's word the bible. It is not something I have just dreamed up. I have had enough proof that God is who He says He is so I have no doubt left. It doesn't bother me that you do not believe or that anyone does not believe, but it will bother me to see those unbelievers turned away from God into outer darkness one day. It will be very sad for all. But that most definately will be what will happen and it is coming up so soon. There is a last verse in the bible where Jesus says,'He that is unjust, let him be unjust still; and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still; and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still; and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
And behold I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
I am alpha and Omega the first and the last.
Revelation 22:11-13
That day is quickly overtaking us.
Paul
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#166097 - 10/09/09 04:48 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Faith does not equal Fact. Period.
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#166100 - 10/09/09 04:58 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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soda
Member
Registered: 08/26/07
Posts: 4726
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i had faith in the tooth-fairy, but voila, no tooth-fairies. my ma put the money under my pillow.
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#166107 - 10/09/09 05:13 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: soda]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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God never intended faith to be fact except to the believer. That is what sets the tares apart from the wheat.
Paul
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#166112 - 10/09/09 05:16 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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God never intended faith to be fact except to the believer. That is what sets the tares apart from the wheat.
Paul
You have no absolute knowledge on what God intends. You'll have to answer to him if you've make false assumptions, spread those assumptions around, and attribute them to god. You better hope you are 100% correct about what God intends. I'm just a simple man and not arrogant enough to think I know what God's intentions really are.
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#166116 - 10/09/09 05:21 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Read His book.
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#166118 - 10/09/09 05:23 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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He has yet to write one
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#166119 - 10/09/09 05:23 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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I have and if true, God is a S.O.B., and I'll tell that straight to his face come judgment day just prior to his damning me to hell.
The God of the Bible is not an entity I will ever spend eternity worshiping...no way, no where, no how. (Unless of course he can explain his rationale for being a S.O.B. to my satisfaction...then...maybe)
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#166120 - 10/09/09 05:23 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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God attributed righteousness to Abraham because he had faith in God and believed. Every other soul without that faith was unrighteous. According to Gods own word. Just one instance of this fact.
Paul
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#166126 - 10/09/09 05:27 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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You would know a fact...lmao
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#166127 - 10/09/09 05:27 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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What do you attribute to God for being an S.O.B? Is it His dealings with ancient Israel and His telling them to wipe out their enemies that bother you? It used to bother me also but no longer.
Paul
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#166130 - 10/09/09 05:29 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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His mass genocide. Mass murder.
His demand that people be stoned to death.
His position on slavery.
His pornographic mind.
The list goes on....
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#166145 - 10/10/09 12:37 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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OK. This is my farewell to the religion board. I may read it from time to timebut will not comment any longer. I am on permanent vacation from spreading the gospel on the internet.
Paul
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#166156 - 10/10/09 10:30 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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OK. This is my farewell to the religion board. I may read it from time to timebut will not comment any longer. I am on permanent vacation from spreading the gospel on the internet.
Paul
Probably not a bad idea Paul. I am sure there are those around in the physical world who enjoy listening to what you have to say. The internet doesn't seem like the best forum for spreading the word of God (as you see it).
We are all on this journey Paul, you found your path with the help of the internet and I am sure everyone else here will find theirs as well...without the help of the internet.
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#166182 - 10/10/09 03:01 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Making more friends I see Dan.
Edited by Davyd (10/10/09 03:02 PM)
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#166192 - 10/10/09 06:27 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Making more friends I see Dan.
Always. Why? You need one?
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#166193 - 10/10/09 06:36 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Naw my quota of bigots is full right now but I can put you on the waiting list.
lol
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#166195 - 10/10/09 07:06 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Not sure why my opinion about the Bible makes me a bigot Dayvd.
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#166197 - 10/10/09 07:10 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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It's your opinion of others that makes you a bigot. Your opinion of the Bible is just uneducated.
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#166198 - 10/10/09 07:13 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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You can't possibly know be educated by a book that doesn't have a clear and concise message. When millions of people read it and come out of it with different interpretations of it the book cannot be classified as educational as the message is as convoluted as the author.
Edited by ParaDude (10/10/09 07:14 PM)
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#166200 - 10/10/09 07:17 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Or at least that's the opinion of someone who is uneducated about the Bible.
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#166202 - 10/10/09 07:20 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Or at least that's the opinion of someone who is uneducated about the Bible.
You can read it a million times Dayvd yet you'll still be no closer to the truth than I am.
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#166205 - 10/10/09 07:37 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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You think the Bible is something worthy of study, like it holds the truth about God. I don't think it is any more worthy of study than any other fiction book.
Finding one's truth is about looking inward not focusing outward staring at a bunch of words in a book.
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#166208 - 10/10/09 07:42 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Or at least that's the opinion of someone who is uneducated about the Bible. You can read it a million times Dayvd yet you'll still be no closer to the truth than I am.
To a small degree you are correct that simply reading will do you very little good. Actually DOING what the Bible suggests tho can & willl do wonders for the education. Without reading what is easily available tho would be akin to not eating easily available food and then whining that God wants you to starve.
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#166211 - 10/10/09 07:44 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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There ya go again, suggesting that I must look to a book to decide what I should be DOING. I know what I should be doing and I didn't need a Bible to tell me that.
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#166213 - 10/10/09 07:47 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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You think the Bible is something worthy of study, like it holds the truth about God. I don't think it is any more worthy of study than any other fiction book.
Finding one's truth is about looking inward not focusing outward staring at a bunch of words in a book.
Whether the Bible is worth reading or not is a personal decision based on your opinion of God.
Just cause you don't like Him is really no reason to be insulting to those who do.
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#166214 - 10/10/09 07:50 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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I like God, the God I believe in. I don't like the God of the Bible.
Where was I insulting towards anyone who believes otherwise?
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#166216 - 10/10/09 07:53 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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There ya go again, suggesting that I must look to a book to decide what I should be DOING. I know what I should be doing and I didn't need a Bible to tell me that.
Actually I didn't suggest that all. What I did was agree with you to a certain point and provided a reason for the difference in actions that you mentioned earlier.
Do you not like it when I agree with you? I can try to avoid that in the future if it's gonna get you all upset.
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#166219 - 10/10/09 08:06 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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I like God, the God I believe in. I don't like the God of the Bible.
Where was I insulting towards anyone who believes otherwise?
So who gets to decide on God's attributes - you or God? He who decides is God.
Stating that a book that other's revere and believe to be Holy is only fictional I'm thinking is not being very respectful.
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#166225 - 10/10/09 08:54 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Get over it. I revere hockey, feel free to trash it all you like.
I get to decide the attributes I want from a God. If I meet God and he is indeed just like the Bible describes him I will tell him to "kiss my ass"...and suffer the consequences.
My opinion about the Bible and it being fictional should not bother you in the least, you don't need me to be respectful of a book of fiction in order for you to continue believing in it.
Back to period 2. Go Oilers!
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#166236 - 10/10/09 09:45 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Get over it. I revere hockey, feel free to trash it all you like.
I get to decide the attributes I want from a God. If I meet God and he is indeed just like the Bible describes him I will tell him to "kiss my ass"...and suffer the consequences.
My opinion about the Bible and it being fictional should not bother you in the least, you don't need me to be respectful of a book of fiction in order for you to continue believing in it.
Back to period 2. Go Oilers!
Out of respect for the people who enjoy hockey I refrain from expressing an opinion that others may find offensive. It's rarely necessary.
If indeed you get to decide God's attributes then you are placing yourself in a superior position. You in effect saying that you are God and He is subservient to you.
It's not a matter of being respectful of a book. It's being considerate enough of others that you might want to avoid doing and/or sayng things that you know they will find offensive. It boils down to whether you actually believe people are worthy of respect or if they have to earn your(God's) respect.
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#166237 - 10/10/09 09:49 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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I don't believe the bible is the word of God, I believe it is a piece of fiction. You don't agree and that is fine.
I could treat you like a child if you wish and say, "there, there, I believe it is a magical book too"... Feel better?
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#166241 - 10/10/09 10:02 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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You say you believe it is fiction and yet judge God based on fiction?!?
Is it really necessary to express an opinion that you know many will find offensive? Do you really care so little about other people that their feelings are worth nothing? Is that one of the attributes of the God that you are trying to emulate?
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#166242 - 10/10/09 10:04 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Get over it. I revere hockey, feel free to trash it all you like.
I get to decide the attributes I want from a God. If I meet God and he is indeed just like the Bible describes him I will tell him to "kiss my ass"...and suffer the consequences.
My opinion about the Bible and it being fictional should not bother you in the least, you don't need me to be respectful of a book of fiction in order for you to continue believing in it.
Back to period 2. Go Oilers!
Out of respect for the people who enjoy hockey I refrain from expressing an opinion that others may find offensive. It's rarely necessary. If indeed you get to decide God's attributes then you are placing yourself in a superior position. You in effect saying that you are God and He is subservient to you. It's not a matter of being respectful of a book. It's being considerate enough of others that you might want to avoid doing and/or sayng things that you know they will find offensive. It boils down to whether you actually believe people are worthy of respect or if they have to earn your(God's) respect.
Look who is talking abt respect now....lmfao. You have zero for any one who doesn't agree with you while demanding they respect you.
Edited by shakey56 (10/10/09 10:07 PM)
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#166256 - 10/11/09 10:13 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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So if I don't believe the Bible is the word of God and if I believe the Bible is a work of fiction I must keep those opinions to myself when in mixed company (like here on the internet??), because if I don't I will be disrespectful to others who think differently.
Does this standard work in reverse as well? People who believe the Bible is the word of God and is holy need to keep that opinion to themselves, if they don't they are being disrespectful to others who think different?
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#166277 - 10/11/09 03:33 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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So if I don't believe the Bible is the word of God and if I believe the Bible is a work of fiction I must keep those opinions to myself when in mixed company (like here on the internet??), because if I don't I will be disrespectful to others who think differently.
Does this standard work in reverse as well? People who believe the Bible is the word of God and is holy need to keep that opinion to themselves, if they don't they are being disrespectful to others who think different?
Dan did you forget our conversation of a couple weeks ago or have you changed your mind? It during that discussion that we talked about limiting ourseles to statements of what we believe and avoid statements of what we don't believe. Telling me the you believe the Bible is fiction doesn't really tell me what you do believe. It also says nothing about other religious texts. Do you also consider them fictiona as well. Are all parts of all texts fictional or is there some truthful parts in some and if so what parts? Basically we agreed to try to talk about we individually believe and avoid statements that others may find offensive - especially when it adds nothing to explaining our personal beliefs. So that while I might say that I do believe the Bible to be accrate, there's really no reason to add to that statement that all other texts are in error. The last part doesn't really tell anything constructve about my personal beliefs and has an almost certain chance of offending someone.
For the most part I think most people are interested in hearing about others spiritual beliefs. Very few are interested, nor care about our unsolicited opinions of other peoples beliefs.
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#166288 - 10/11/09 04:17 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: MerryA]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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I believe Davyd should practice what he preaches
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#166290 - 10/11/09 05:01 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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I believe he does, but doesn't concern himself with the unsolicited opinions of those who are so blantantly often wrong.
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#166291 - 10/11/09 05:04 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: MerryA]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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I believe God gave us free will and it is us, not God, that causes pain and harm and fear.
A good thought to keep in mind.
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#166292 - 10/11/09 05:05 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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It's beliefs, Davyd. There are no rights or wrongs, only beliefs. Your belief does not make the next guy's belief wrong. Mortal man can not know.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#166293 - 10/11/09 05:48 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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So why is it you insist on telling me things I already know? Perhaps you wouldn't seem so arrogant if you spoke about yourself rather than coming across as judgemental based on false assumptions. Either that or at the very least provide a quote of something I've said that you misunderstand.
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#166294 - 10/11/09 05:53 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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I BELIEVE that the bible is a fictional book of stories.
Better?
I BELIEVE that if the bible is true and God is exactly like he is in the Bible then he is a s.o.b.
Better?
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#166295 - 10/11/09 06:08 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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P.S. What I believe, or don't believe, should not be offensive in the least to anyone, your/their faith should be strong enough to withstand ONE person who thinks differently.
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#166296 - 10/11/09 06:15 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: MerryA]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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I believe God gave us free will and it is us, not God, that causes pain and harm and fear.
The only thing you said that I take issue with. I think the OT God taught using pain, ruled using fear, and caused great harm to many.
No one can ever convince me that the entire planet of human beings were evil and worthy of mass murder and Noah and his family were the only decent ones worth saving. God, being the entity he is could have come up with a better way of cleansing the Earth than a giant flood. Even with the flood look at how things turned out...
God of the OT suggesting barbaric means of punishment towards people he loved. I wonder how many stones to the head before the person getting stoned felt, "pain, fear, and harm"...and in the name of God.
Man made rules for man made barbarism.
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#166297 - 10/11/09 06:26 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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I BELIEVE that the bible is a fictional book of stories.
Better?
I BELIEVE that if the bible is true and God is exactly like he is in the Bible then he is a s.o.b.
Better?
Not really Dan, it only tells me what you believe about someone elses belief system and nothing about your own.
It's alight tho Dan, don't sweat it. I think maybe your just simply incapable of speaking about your own beliefs without intentionally being offensive.
You don't seem to get the idea that it's not a competion.
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#166298 - 10/11/09 06:29 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Really? I don't get the idea that it isn't a competition? How many Christian based religions are there? All trying to recruit new members...
I believe what I want and when someone tries to tell me that I need to read a book to find the truth, a book I don't believe has that much truth to it...well...
How else am I to express my thoughts on not wanting to "study" something I don't believe in?
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#166300 - 10/11/09 06:34 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Really? I don't get the idea that it isn't a competition? How many Christian based religions are there? All trying to recruit new members...
I believe what I want and when someone tries to tell me that I need to read a book to find the truth, a book I don't believe has that much truth to it...well...
How else am I to express my thoughts on not wanting to "study" something I don't believe in?
I didn't see anyone telling you to read a book?
How many non Christian religious groups are there? How many of those do you routinely tell you don't believe them?
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#166303 - 10/11/09 07:20 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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So why is it you insist on telling me things I already know? Perhaps you wouldn't seem so arrogant if you spoke about yourself rather than coming across as judgemental based on false assumptions. Either that or at the very least provide a quote of something I've said that you misunderstand.
I just give you back what you put out. The list of assumptions you've made and continue to make abt me is huge. Yes, I've made some abt you, but at least I stop using an assumption when I'm corrected.
If you already know, how can you say with certainty that your belief in God is right? You can not know God exists. You can only believe. By saying you know God exists you have proven you do know what you just claimed to know in the above post.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#166304 - 10/11/09 07:41 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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[quote=Davyd]
If you already know, how can you say with certainty that your belief in God is right? You can not know God exists. You can only believe. By saying you know God exists you have proven you do know what you just claimed to know in the above post.
I say with certainty that I "believe" in God and that the God of the Bible is the only one and true God. I say it with certainty based on a wide variety of factors that I consider(judge) to be reliable. While it is a "fact" that I have faith, the subject of that faith is simply that - faith based. I have never said, to my knowledge, that the existence of God is a fact. After having gone thru this now for what the tenth time I hope we can finally put this question to rest. It's never been an issue or question for me. You seem to be having a terrible time with simply accepting my response to what I feel is a baseless accusation. Before you accuse me again or even bring the question up, could you at least provide me the courtesy of quoting me where you believe I've said something contrary to what I just stated and have been repeatedly saying.
Edited by Davyd (10/11/09 07:45 PM)
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#166307 - 10/11/09 08:01 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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[quote=Davyd]
If you already know, how can you say with certainty that your belief in God is right? You can not know God exists. You can only believe. By saying you know God exists you have proven you do know what you just claimed to know in the above post. I say with certainty that I "believe" in God and that the God of the Bible is the only one and true God. I say it with certainty based on a wide variety of factors that I consider(judge) to be reliable. While it is a "fact" that I have faith, the subject of that faith is simply that - faith based. I have never said, to my knowledge, that the existence of God is a fact. After having gone thru this now for what the tenth time I hope we can finally put this question to rest. It's never been an issue or question for me. You seem to be having a terrible time with simply accepting my response to what I feel is a baseless accusation. Before you accuse me again or even bring the question up, could you at least provide me the courtesy of quoting me where you believe I've said something contrary to what I just stated and have been repeatedly saying.
Originally Posted By: Davyd
Originally Posted By: shakey56
Originally Posted By: Davyd
Originally Posted By: shakey56
Originally Posted By: Davyd
Originally Posted By: shakey56
Given what is known today, wishful thinking fits
Apparently you don't know me.
And you don't know the difference between faith and fact
I do know you seem quite judgemental about other people.
What exactly have I said was a fact that you disagee with?
That God exists. Unless I'm mistaken you said for you that is a fact.
I only disagree with the fact part.
Actually what I said was that "for me" it is a fact. That anyone who knows me will quickly tell you that my belief isn't just something that I talk about and act in a manner contrary to that belief. My "faith" is a fact, as much as beliefs can be. Whether anyone else considers the existense of God to be a fact or not really isn't something I'm willing to spend much thought on.
Is this not what you asked for?
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#166308 - 10/11/09 08:16 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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ParaDude
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Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Really? I don't get the idea that it isn't a competition? How many Christian based religions are there? All trying to recruit new members...
I believe what I want and when someone tries to tell me that I need to read a book to find the truth, a book I don't believe has that much truth to it...well...
How else am I to express my thoughts on not wanting to "study" something I don't believe in? I didn't see anyone telling you to read a book? How many non Christian religious groups are there? How many of those do you routinely tell you don't believe them?
I believe in all of them, I just don't believe in all they believe in.
You call me uneducated. How can one get educated about something that cannot be proven? All I can get is a bunch of different THEORIES thrown my way by a bunch of people who cannot be sure of anything other than that they have FAITH.
I had faith in Santa Claus as well...till I was 8...then, the reality of it all set in.
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#166310 - 10/11/09 08:26 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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How does one get "educated" about God? You can devote you entire life to the study of religion and you'll be no closer to knowing the absolute truth than someone who never opened a book. You'll know heaps about RELIGION but zip about God, you'll absorb tons of info about other people's theories but zip about the absolute truth.
The only thing that is FACT in this discussion is that it is a FACT that one day, we will know the TRUTH. I am good with that.
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#166312 - 10/11/09 08:27 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Unless you are Davyd the chosen one.
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#166313 - 10/11/09 08:36 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Actually what I said there is exactly what I've been saying all along. That "for me" my belief is indeed a fact. The main clue to my meaning is {"for me"}. Facts can't simply exist for one person but not another. So thinking I was saying that Gods existence was a fact for me and not others would make no sense.
Actually what I was alluding to is the fact that while some may say they believe in God their lifestyle says otherwise. They may believe they believe(self delusion) or they may say it for societal acceptance/rejection. I do believe there are or at least were those on here who while they may disagree with my beliefs will tell you that I "walk the talk".
One of the more confusing aspects of my belief is that while I am quite conservative regarding my own actions I am much more liberal when it comes to others. It's based on that free will statement Merry made earlier.
So... does that help settle this issue?
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#166314 - 10/11/09 08:40 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Unless you are Davyd the chosen one.
Shhh.... Dan & Rob are under the impression I AM God. Don't blow it for me. lol
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#166315 - 10/11/09 08:46 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Yeah, it proves my point. You are arrogant in your belief. Theirs is self-delusion, and yours is fact.
And you call me judgmental?
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#166316 - 10/11/09 09:09 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Really? I don't get the idea that it isn't a competition? How many Christian based religions are there? All trying to recruit new members...
I believe what I want and when someone tries to tell me that I need to read a book to find the truth, a book I don't believe has that much truth to it...well...
How else am I to express my thoughts on not wanting to "study" something I don't believe in? I didn't see anyone telling you to read a book? How many non Christian religious groups are there? How many of those do you routinely tell you don't believe them? I believe in all of them, I just don't believe in all they believe in. You call me uneducated. How can one get educated about something that cannot be proven? All I can get is a bunch of different THEORIES thrown my way by a bunch of people who cannot be sure of anything other than that they have FAITH. I had faith in Santa Claus as well...till I was 8...then, the reality of it all set in.
The idea of being educated referred to the idea of being edcated on exactly what the text says... or doesn't say. For someone to say that Santa drove a four wheeler pulled by two blue rabbits would probably get se veral people to respond that the person was unedcated about Santa.
There are people who study religious texts all their life. It may make therm smart about the text, but not necessisarily about God.
Saying what you did when I made my statement only tells me you are uneducated about the Bible and nothing about your relationship with God. Although from your statement I kinda got the idea that you dislike a certain group of people.
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#166317 - 10/11/09 09:13 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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How does one get "educated" about God? You can devote you entire life to the study of religion and you'll be no closer to knowing the absolute truth than someone who never opened a book. You'll know heaps about RELIGION but zip about God, you'll absorb tons of info about other people's theories but zip about the absolute truth.
The only thing that is FACT in this discussion is that it is a FACT that one day, we will know the TRUTH. I am good with that.
Good question Dan, now provide us with your answer about how you do it - not how others shouldn't.
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#166318 - 10/11/09 09:14 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Yeah, it proves my point. You are arrogant in your belief. Theirs is self-delusion, and yours is fact.
And you call me judgmental?
Yea okay whatever.....
Actually your point was that I believed the existance of God to be a fact, which as it turns out was a lie.
Edited by Davyd (10/11/09 09:17 PM)
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#166320 - 10/11/09 10:00 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Yeah, it proves my point. You are arrogant in your belief. Theirs is self-delusion, and yours is fact.
And you call me judgmental?
Yea okay whatever..... Actually your point was that I believed the existance of God to be a fact, which as it turns out was a lie.
"Actually what I said was that "for me" it is a fact"
You said it repeatedly.
Try to spin it however you want.
Oh, and btw we have all seen how you live your faith on these boards. You condemn while whining abt nonexistent condemnation of Christians. You have repeatedly accused without any proof. When you are caught in your lies you either attempt to change the subject or whine abt persecution.
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#166321 - 10/11/09 10:12 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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IMO Davyd is definitely not one of those annoying proselytizers who try to force their beliefs on others. I respect his belief system and admire how he puts his faith into action by reaching out to help others.
My beliefs are fairly simple and I've stated them many times before. I believe there is a creator and I further believe that he wants us to be humble before him and show kindness and compassion to each other and cooperate to get things done.
I believe that much of the Bible and other holy books may well have been inspired by visions provided by the creator, but the actual words were written by men trying make sense of those visions. IMO there is much wisdom to be found in holy books but that they are mostly allegory and also were written by men living in primitive times who had little real understanding of the world around them.
I further believe that we can best appreciate the subtleties and glory of creation by studying nature and science. I also believe that reaching out to help those in need around us is the best possible way to honor the creator and that we should strive to have a personal relationship with him.
I believe that Jesus was given an important and powerful message from the creator to deliver to us. I see his life as an ideal model of kindness and compassion that we should strive to emulate, but I feel that Christians have made him into an iconic cult figure, and they worship him instead of the true creator that I believe in.
Edited by ghoti (10/11/09 10:14 PM)
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#166324 - 10/11/09 10:37 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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I believe that much of the Bible and other holy books may well have been inspired by visions provided by the creator, but the actual words were written by men trying make sense of those visions. IMO there is much wisdom to be found in holy books but that they are mostly allegory and also were written by men living in primitive times who had little real understanding of the world around them.
Thanks for the kind words Steve. I'm not sure what to think about shakey other than I think maybe he has me confused with someone else or he's being told stories "out of school".
I think there is a lot to what you said in the part I quoted. It seems we read and Either want to follow the literal example or we disregard some of the passages totally. For me I tend to take the writings literally, but look for spiritual principle that I think was meant to be communicated.
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#166327 - 10/11/09 11:02 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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I mostly agree, Davyd, but IMO it's a waste of time to obsess excessively over the Bible or other holy books. The primitive people who wrote the Bible interpreted and expanded their visions in the light of their cultures and the knowledge of the times and the original vision may well be masked by these things.
Sorting through the verbiage to find the kernel of the original vision may be important, but I feel that the findings of science and the study of nature provides constant new views of the glory of the creator and shouldn't be ignored by any thoughtful person.
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#166328 - 10/11/09 11:12 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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I believe that much of the Bible and other holy books may well have been inspired by visions provided by the creator, but the actual words were written by men trying make sense of those visions. IMO there is much wisdom to be found in holy books but that they are mostly allegory and also were written by men living in primitive times who had little real understanding of the world around them.
Thanks for the kind words Steve. I'm not sure what to think about shakey other than I think maybe he has me confused with someone else or he's being told stories "out of school". I think there is a lot to what you said in the part I quoted. It seems we read and Either want to follow the literal example or we disregard some of the passages totally. For me I tend to take the writings literally, but look for spiritual principle that I think was meant to be communicated.
You have been pretty quick to label me in the past. My only experience of you is here. Never had a conversation with anyone regarding you. I've never discounted your belief, and you repeatedly call me a hater. When I show where you have said the existence of God is a fact for you, you call me a liar.
The only issue I have with any believer is when their belief becomes fact for them. That is when we have holy wars, because by definition if your belief is fact, everybody else is wrong. Knowing is not possible. Belief should be entered into and embraced humbly with the knowledge that you may very well be wrong.
You are obviously the one who is confused.
Edited by shakey56 (10/11/09 11:13 PM)
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#166330 - 10/12/09 05:29 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Wabisan
Member
Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 5136
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If that is a fact in your world, you are delusional just like the Muslims you want me to include.
Me and about a billion others on the planet.
Edited by Wabisan (10/12/09 05:29 AM)
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#166350 - 10/12/09 09:23 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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I mostly agree, Davyd, but IMO it's a waste of time to obsess excessively over the Bible or other holy books. The primitive people who wrote the Bible interpreted and expanded their visions in the light of their cultures and the knowledge of the times and the original vision may well be masked by these things.
Sorting through the verbiage to find the kernel of the original vision may be important, but I feel that the findings of science and the study of nature provides constant new views of the glory of the creator and shouldn't be ignored by any thoughtful person.
I agree that if we focus to much in one area we run a big risk of missing things that are important. I couldn't suggest to someone that they only use one area to learn about God. One of the things I have recently been reminded of is not everyone learns the same way. Just as we shouldn't try to force everyone into a seat to hear a lecture, we should also be leery of becoming so focused on one manner of learning we miss out.
Basically I am a kinesthetic learner. I seem to learn best by doing hands on stuff. I need to remain open to learning by seeing and/or hearing. I am most comfortable in reading the Bible as one would read a newspaper. Again I need to remain not only open to other methods of reading/studying the Bible I need to be open to learning thru science and nature, but be open to the variety of ways a person can learn in those fields. There is no one right area, just as there no one right way.
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#166566 - 10/13/09 01:40 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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I think it's a huge mistake on the part of many fundamentalists to act like science is the enemy of faith. IMO turning a blind eye to science is denying new information that increases appreciation of the true glory of creation.
I like something that Stephen Gould once said: the role of science is to try to understand HOW the universe works, while the role of religion is to try to understand WHY the universe exists. The two disciplines have very different but equally important purposes, and there is really no reason for there to be conflict between them.
Edited by ghoti (10/13/09 01:42 PM)
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#166590 - 10/13/09 02:19 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Grow
[Re: Anonymous]
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starlight.2
Member
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 796
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i don't believe in god, by i believe in belief.
lol
seriously, one doesn't necessarily have to believe in the literal existence of god to recognize the influence of faith as a powerful motivator of action, good or evil. to me the bible is an amalgam of history, myth and poetry of which i think you probably do need at least a passing knowledge in order to understand the psychology of its followers.
not believing the bible is the literal word of truth does NOT mean being incapable of empathy for people who do.
and believing in the literal truth of the bible does NOT mean being incapable of empathy for those who don't.
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Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace.
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#166592 - 10/13/09 02:21 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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starlight.2
Member
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 796
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I think it's a huge mistake on the part of many fundamentalists to act like science is the enemy of faith. IMO turning a blind eye to science is denying new information that increases appreciation of the true glory of creation.
I like something that Stephen Gould once said: the role of science is to try to understand HOW the universe works, while the role of religion is to try to understand WHY the universe exists. The two disciplines have very different but equally important purposes, and there is really no reason for there to be conflict between them.
science is the enemy of fundamentalism.
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Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace.
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#166664 - 10/13/09 03:19 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: starlight.2]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Perhaps so, Star, but that doesn't mean science is the enemy of ALL religion. Or that all religion is the enemy of science, either.
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#166745 - 10/13/09 06:44 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I have to say science is coming around closer to fundamentalism more every day. IMO and from what I hear and read. This to Starlight. We can just sit back and watch it happen for those who disagree with me.
Paul... I be gone!:-)
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#166748 - 10/13/09 07:12 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Don'tknoew how i did it but iposted this reply in another thread.It is in the same subject though.
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#166751 - 10/13/09 08:15 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Sorry, Paulwa, but nearly everything the guy says on that video is bogus. Thousands of transitional fossils exist and the "theory" of evolution is now a well-established fact that is accepted by over 99$ of the scientific community.
Refusing to see the forest for the trees just makes fundamentalists look like they have their heads in the sand and prefer to deny the facts rather than modify their extremely narrow interpretation of the Bible. Did you read any of the comments posted under that video?
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#166753 - 10/13/09 08:19 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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No but there are more unbelievers than believers I guess. I was just posting some evidence that I believe in other than just my word.
Paul
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#166754 - 10/13/09 08:21 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I don't like how some evolutionists arrive at their so called truth. They are mental contortionists at best.
Paul
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#166756 - 10/13/09 08:37 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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lol....evolution: you don't like their truth, therefore you discount the evidence. Creation: you like the theory, therefore you accept it without evidence.
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#166759 - 10/13/09 10:44 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Didn't find all those atheists to be convincing. One of them said creationists keep bringing back the same tired facts year after year. I wonder why.They are all based on the word of God.Goddoes not change why should our beliefs? I watchedthem all. They are all very deranged in their science in my opinion.
Paul
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#166762 - 10/13/09 11:16 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Yeah, somehow I knew you'd find a way to reject them.
If you honestly think that gathering fossil evidence, making careful observations, and then drawing logical conclusions are examples of "deranged" thinking then I guess you and I have radically different concepts of sanity. Personally I find believing that words written over 2000 years ago by uneducated desert herdsmen have vital importance to today's world to be far more deranged.
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#166816 - 10/14/09 11:23 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Those old Iraelites words hold eternal life in them...your evolutionist contortionists hold only death. Not much of a future with them. But then Israel is truth of God. That display of cranial capacity over time (with the overpowering music accompaniment) did you notice how much plaster filler was in those skulls of apes and whatever they could find to base their empty dreams on? Evolution is just a dream for some and a nightmare for others. They take a minimal piece of bone and try to build a complete thesis on it and with every bit of clay included brings them further from the truth. They run out of information on dinosaurs lately so what do they turn to forfurther evidence..the tiny bird. How stupid and gullible can your evolutionists be. Of course there are similarities between species. God created them all for this environment and used DNA referencing to create them so of course you will find similarities. Well for me this discussion is over. There will be those who are determined to root God out of their existance and those who find His love and eternal life in the process. I choose the latter and follow the inner truth God has given me. You go ahead and follow your bone fragments that will ultimately lead you to the dump of human souls who rejected their maker.
I feel sad for those believers of lies and blundering scientists whose eyes are blind.
Paul
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#166819 - 10/14/09 11:39 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Same ole pattern with you, Paul. Somebody shows you evidence, and you revert to dogma. Why do you even engage in these discussions? Calling some of the most intelligent folks in the world stupid and gullible doesn't increase your intelligence in people's perception.
Edited by shakey56 (10/14/09 11:40 AM)
_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#166831 - 10/14/09 12:29 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Paulwa, as long as you see science as an enemy to your faith I guess you'll be in denial of the facts. That's a terrible shame since your mind is closed to so much of the beauty of creation that science reveals.
Your attitude is really no different from clergy of the late Middle Ages who imprisoned Galileo and burned Bruno at the stake for daring to say the earth wasn't the center of the universe. Science can STRENGTHEN religious faith if you just let go of the silly and long disproven ideas of Archbishop Ussher from 400 years ago about the age of the earth and timetable of Genesis.
Thinking the full glory of the creator can be revealed by poring over the pages of a single ancient book is so limiting to him as to be borderline blasphemy IMO.
You show NO respect for the faith of others, and your constant ranting about the superiority of your theology over mine and others wore thin several years ago.
Edited by ghoti (10/14/09 12:30 PM)
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#166836 - 10/14/09 12:57 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Just my viewpoint Ghoti. I am sorry if I think other views are wrong but if I didn't I wouldn't be following my present course. If you really believe your present course is right for you then I am ok with that and wouldn't try to change you. But you shouldn't be trying to convince me of evolution which I abhorr. I studied it a bit in school and rejected it. I don't look down on science but I do believe that if science is correct it will only prove the bible. If it doesn't then it is wrong and when I look into it I can see it is wrong. Let God be true and every man a liar (because of satan's influence on his mind).
We are at loggerheads on this one Ghoti. I think we are on the verge of God stepping in to reveal Himself by showing His word is true. All the prophecies Jesus said of end times is coming to pass. We are being inundated with all of them in weather calamities, earthquakes and sunami's and such. The sun is affecting us much more than in the past, there is prophecy showing that inthe end times it will be much hotter for mankind. We are losing our protective layers in the sky. Signs in the heavens and the earth. It is all here and growing in number and strength. Society is falling apart and moving toward one world government, financial system is being destroyed right in front of our eyes. Some eyes seem to be blind to these facts.
Paul
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#166839 - 10/14/09 01:25 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ævory
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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Paulwa, you were absolutely correct on the 'macro' thing...don't ever back down -- good to see you don't.
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#166842 - 10/14/09 01:47 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ævory]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Paulwa, you were absolutely correct on the 'macro' thing...don't ever back down -- good to see you don't.
Do you have any evidence to back your contention, or are you just regurgitating the discredited dogma you've been fed?
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#166865 - 10/14/09 03:26 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Ya'll know how much I hate pointing out lil things(shyt stirring I believe is the correct medical term) but.... lol
back a couple pages Paulwa asked about 'transitional' forms. It was quickly poo poo'd and ghoti provided a link to "archy". Paul disagreed and then the topic was quickly changed.
So if someone not familiar with the discussion might wonder how Archy would be a transitional form? What was Archy before he was Archy? What direct link is there from Archy to whatever Archy became and whatever he was before he became Archy?
Edited by Davyd (10/14/09 03:28 PM)
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#166877 - 10/14/09 03:49 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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If you mean Ardi, Lucy would be a likely descendant. Ardi, being the oldest we have found, does not have any known predecessor.
Ghoti would be much better at answering than me tho.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#166913 - 10/14/09 06:25 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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I'd have to look to be sure, but it wasn't ardi it was the bird with teeth?
Edited by Davyd (10/14/09 06:27 PM)
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#166923 - 10/14/09 06:53 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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lol...we are on very different pages then. Ardi is a hominid skeleton found recently. Not sure I know Archy.
Edited by shakey56 (10/14/09 07:29 PM)
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#166955 - 10/14/09 08:02 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Archeopterix (sp) is the supposed link between dinosaurs and birds. LOL Yuk Yuk...how funny! He is a funny skeletinized fossil with imprints of feathers and a beak with teeth and the evilutiuonists made a big hayday about its discovery. They will grasp at anything they can hang their faulty reasonings on to form a so called fact. I would say he was a bird long extinct that had catastrophic DNA scrambling..but still a bird..not quite a huge leathery dinosaur. Where is the links between Archeae and the dinosaur..yes I know they say there were smaller species of dinosaurs. Their were birds with leather like wings also and archae was probably one of those and they finally went extinct. DNA only degrades or loses information it does not add new information into the complex. Only God can program DNA to form a new creature. Present day scientists can mix DNA and maybe make major changes or splices to form different creatures but they all will remain in their specie lines. From what I gather in my reading.
Ronda I definately know the difference between Micro and Macro and their is absolutely tno proof of Macro ever happening. Thanks for the support. Thank you to Davyd for bringing up his excellent point also.
Paul
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#166962 - 10/14/09 08:20 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Paul, there is also absolutely no proof of God.
Now while both our statements will ruffle feathers, mine is at least factual. Yours is based on myth, fantasy and outright lies told to further an agenda.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#166970 - 10/14/09 09:29 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paul I
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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Insects resistant to pesticides, Viiruses and bacteria now resistant to antibiotics and vaccines.
THESE ARE MACROEVOLUTION
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"...only the shadow knows"
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#166977 - 10/14/09 10:12 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paul I]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Paul I, these are axamples of micro evolution (changes within a specie group) Macro evolution (doesn't exist) causes a jump from a known specie to a brand new specie. Macro=big jump...micro=small jump or change such as in anti biotic mutations.
Shakey I have had more than enough proof from God of His existance in my life time and it is incontrivertable proof but only involves me. He has totally given Himself away to me. I haven't seen Him but I have seen and spoken with messengers from God and from the dark side. He has told me things I would never have known by myself. He has instantly removed addiction from me when I was lost and on my way down. You can't tell me He doesn't exist when you don't believe in Him or have never probably yielded your self to Him in obedience. So don't tell me God does not exist, you can never convince me.God is, Has always been and will always be! He is there for those who will welcome Him into their lives.
Sorry but I wasn't supposed to be in this melee here on the Religion board. And In my Opinion.
Paul
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#166984 - 10/14/09 10:48 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Paulwa, there is no objective proof of God's existence, and you know it. We all do. But the thing you just don't seem to get is there doesn't need to be proof for faith in God to exist.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#167039 - 10/15/09 11:07 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I have all the proof I need Shakey, I am sorry if you don't.
Paul
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#167040 - 10/15/09 11:09 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Wasn't the Bible put together using "fragments" of text as well?
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#167056 - 10/15/09 11:48 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Well, PD I believe God had His book put together to suit Himself using whoever and whatever method. He is so far beyond us that what we see is only a fragment of the actuality and may appear to be far fetched or even supernatural. He even calls preaching foolishness but uses that to draw people into His purpose. He seeks those whose heart is directed towards His way of life and love. He probably knows that those bent on cruder living will steer clear of Him and would not fit into His universe at all happily. Just my thoughts on the subject.
I am finding it very difficult to keep my mouth shut on these subjects as I intended. But guess I will have to limit myself to just response and not initiate subject matter.
Paul
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#167063 - 10/15/09 11:53 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Still, your "truth" is based on fragments of a book. Others find truth in fragments of fossils...others find truth in a combination of both and others find truth ... elsewhere.
The only real truth is that no one will know the absolute truth until after they are gone from this world.
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#167098 - 10/15/09 12:36 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I am convinced (by the bible) that I have an idea now of what I am facing after I leave this world PD. Plus my experiences with my encounters to firm up this belief. But most people will not know till they arrive on the shore of eternity, but I believe they could know if they seek the truth and keep knocking as Jesus asks us to do. Of course my understanding is only an inkling of what the actuality will be. Like the Apostle Paul said, it is as though we are looking through a glass darkly. Just not seeing the brightness of actuality.
As to the fragments, enough copies are found so that there is full text available and through the centuries of copies it is seen that they are all copied faithfully. Mistakes were destroyed on the spot by the scribes who labored long and hard at their task.
The big thing about it all is that with all the signs prophecied for the end of the age it is dead sure we are pulling into the station of time to wrap things up. Thank God..it has been a long trip and everyone is tired and cranky and need a pit stop very badly. The only ones urging the train to continue without stopping are the unbelievers, the robbers and the greedy lining their pockets from the weak and the poor.
SELAH..Maranatha
Paul
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#167102 - 10/15/09 12:41 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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How long have you been so convinced Paul?
No offense but...many people when they get to your age have had the opportunity to seek out their own personal truths and feel content that their quest has left them prepared for what is to come. They become very rigid in those beliefs because they feel prepared and are unwilling to alter their perspectives. That's great...for you.
Others feel they still have plenty of time to discover their "truth", that the quest is still something that is on going.
I am sure, that in my twilight years I too will have developed a strong feeling of "truth", and will be just as inflexible as you are.
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#167195 - 10/15/09 02:14 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I think it was in my early 20's,PD. Due to an encounter. Even with my knowing there was a God watching me I still followed my own self interests in music and my church attendance was scattered. I from time to time would go to church and try to live a christian life but would get into a band and it would slide again. I guess even with my knowledge andproofs I still was a backslider but I never rejected God or the Lord Jesus and continued reading the bible and speaking to others about the scriptures and belief. With various encounters I won't go into again I finally at age of 60 turned again to the faith. With my hands destroyed (as far as ever playing guitar again)by arthritis, I guess the bands were out and with being healed of slot machines and gambling I took the hint from God and turned to Him again. He is very forgiving. He has given me the guitar to play again but only with the steel bar to play slide guitar and a church to play in. He is also a very understanding and kind God. I even have a slot machine to play, though I haven't even touched it in over a year. So with all my faith and knowledge I have not faithfully followed Him, but for thelast 11 years I have. Can't say that I am a grade A christian, just one of the greatfull lesser ones.
Paul
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#167288 - 10/15/09 05:11 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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I have all the proof I need Shakey, I am sorry if you don't.
Paul
You do understand the difference between objective and subjective proof, right?
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#167292 - 10/15/09 05:32 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Yes and my proof to myself is both.
Paul
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#167298 - 10/15/09 06:10 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paul I
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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Post what you want as farI am concerned. It's interesting.
It could be that what a Christian sees as far as creating their entire dynamic with God could be acceptable to God as many times as there are Christianes within certain bounds like a Christian
serial killer may have a problem.
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"...only the shadow knows"
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#167309 - 10/15/09 07:22 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Yes and my proof to myself is both.
Paul
Then you have no clue what objective proof means. There simply is none.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#167344 - 10/15/09 08:53 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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My proof is objective enough for me. God has proven Himself to me 100times over. It is not objective in the sense I can hand you measurable facts.
Paul
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#167380 - 10/16/09 10:02 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Ultimately, all religion and spirituality is subjective. That's why our own beliefs may be convincing to us but can't really be used as proof for others.
That's fine by me since I believe we all have to develop our own pathway. Discussing religion can be very interesting with others who accept that concept, but people who are convinced they KNOW the truth are just not worth talking to about religious topics IMO.
Anyone who comes here to preach and/or seek converts is just wasting everyone's time.
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#167387 - 10/16/09 10:28 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Wise words as usual from ghoti.
Only have one slightly different take on it. Isn't the internet largely abt wasting time anyway?
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#167547 - 10/16/09 12:52 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I agree with ghoti except for one point. Christians are obligated to spread the gospel of salvation. That is where it stops though because if their is to be any arm twisting that is left up to God's Holy Spirit and the individual involved. But if some one comes along trying to trash the Christian viewpoint then we must stand up for the word of God because in our view there is no other book nor speach that is superior or as true as the bible taken literally. so we can spread the gospel where ever we are even if it means forfeiting our life in the process. These days it is hard to find anyone that dedicated though. So who knows there might even be one soul here at NM whowillhear the gospel and down the road accept Jesus astheir saviour and Lord of their life, so we continue on even though we are mercilously attacked at every move.
Paul
Edited by Paulwa_dup1 (10/16/09 12:53 PM)
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#167552 - 10/16/09 01:00 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Praise God and pass the chicken. I have seen the light!
The light of obsession in your eyes. It is laughable that you claim merciless attacks. I guess disagreeing with Christians is now assault and battery.
Excuse the hyperbole, but I was inspired by the inspired one.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#167563 - 10/16/09 01:10 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Disagreeing is one thing but many times it is like the Arabs trying to destroy Israel and wiping them off the map. That is a bit much IMO.
Paul
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#167740 - 10/16/09 06:15 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Disagreeing is one thing but many times it is like the Arabs trying to destroy Israel and wiping them off the map. That is a bit much IMO.
Paul
The Arabs are not trying to destroy Israel and wipe them off the map. There are certain segments of the Arab population who would like to see it happen but hardly something the majority want.
It's like say the Christians want to see all homosexuals "cured" or irradiated, some do, most are a lot more tolerant than that.
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#167743 - 10/16/09 06:51 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Did Paul say ALL Arabs Dan?
Nice to see u still have that dramatic flair. You should try acting someday, you'd be a natural. Maybe take over for Beck?
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#167749 - 10/16/09 07:21 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Well according to the bible the majority of Arab countries will be involved in trying to wipe Israel out. Of course they have a lot of Arab brothers who do not dislike them and work well together with them. God said they would come together one day but all Israels enemies will be utterly destroyed. You would be suprised at the numbers of Arabs leaving Islam for Christianity these days.
Paul
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#167761 - 10/16/09 07:53 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Did Paul say ALL Arabs Dan?
Nice to see u still have that dramatic flair. You should try acting someday, you'd be a natural. Maybe take over for Beck?
Good to know Davyd.
Next time I say, "Christians are nothing but...________" I know you'll know that I don't mean ALL Christians.
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#167779 - 10/16/09 10:51 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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All Arabs are not Muslim or Islam, many are christians and probably a few agnostics and atheists and maybe other religions too.There aremany types of christians too and I doubt all of them are saved according to Jesus own words.
Paul
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#167783 - 10/16/09 11:10 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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And not all Muslim's want Christianity destroyed.
I find it sad that religions fixate on their differences which leads to conflict, it's too bad religions don't focus on their similarities and thus form a common ground and possible understanding and most of all, tolerance of each other.
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#167792 - 10/16/09 11:25 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Paul I
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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As goes the fate of Jerusalem in it's currently divided state
so goes the Middle East.
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"...only the shadow knows"
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#167793 - 10/16/09 11:53 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paul I]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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I still think that the city of Jerusalem should be a Nation unto itself, kind of like Vatican City. A place for all religious faiths to come and worship. Put a peacekeeping force (not unlike the Swiss Guard) in place with EXTREME high security. If the Christians/Jews/Muslims can't decide then the rest of the world must step up and do this for them.
eta - I know...simplistic and I am sure someone has thought about the idea and rejected it for reasons that are beyond me.
Edited by ParaDude (10/16/09 11:57 PM)
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#167800 - 10/17/09 08:09 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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Jerusalem is fine the way it is to me. The three main religions of the western world each have carved out their niche and somehow it works. Time seems to stop as the three pray in the synagogues, cathedrals, and mosques, co-existing in one city proves to me we can co-exist in the world.
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"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
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#167802 - 10/17/09 08:52 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: MerryA]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Yes it is Merry, however, one of the biggest issues regarding ME peace talks revolves "control of Jerusalem", it's one of those "deal breakers" for all sides.
My suggestion simply eliminates that contentious issue from the equation and all still get to carve their niche.
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#167821 - 10/17/09 12:38 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Jerusalem is not the most valuable point in Israel, it is the temple mount and Arab Muslims are in complete control and are viciously protecting it from those whose religion is founded on it, Israel. They should have control of it but the fact that Islam has it is a result of God's punishment for Israels sins. One day they will have it back and the Dome of the Rock may still stand beside the new temple Israel will build and be able to follow God and the sacrifice He has demanded Israel to follow.Animal sacrifice will begin once more one day for the forgiveness of Israels sins till they receive their Messiah who will save them from their sins. Then animal sacrifice will come to an abrupt halt.
Paul
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#167826 - 10/17/09 02:44 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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So if God will do this then we need NOT get in His way! Again 
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#167843 - 10/17/09 06:34 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Just watched a video on this subject on the book of Obadiah. This short book lays out the past background of Israel and also the latter 'Day of the Lord'..our present age. War is definately coming in the ME. We don't know what will trigger it but more than likely it may be Israel attacking Iran's nuclear facility. Nuclear war will burst out quick and end (we hope) in the ME. Israel (tiny little Israel) will be the only warriors left standing. Their enemies will be non existant and only a memoruy of the past. Israels territory will expand outward to god's promised boundaries into Jordans territory and northward to damascus, Syria or further. This is the unnamed war of Obadiah. Later will come the war of Ezekial 38 involving the rest of the Arab countries. I don't at this point have any idea what the total outcome will be of that war. The answers are in the bible but I haven't studied them that closely yet. Then there is the final war Armageddon which I think comes at the end of the 1000 year millenial reign of Christ when all the final enemies are totally obliterated by God. This is what I have learned and I think it will happen pretty much this way.
God has said He will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who cause Israel harm. Those offenders will receive back themselves just the same that they bring down on Israel. There is a list of the times America's leaders came against Israel to divide their land for peace and the almost simultaneous retribution that came back on us for those actions. Boith of the Bush's and Clinton and now Obama is bringing it all down on our heads. You have noticed that Obama is pretty much anti Israel and has said if the final line is drawn he would defend Muslims over christians when it comes down to it. Yes go ahead and holler your outrage but I believe he did say that and I think in his heart he holds Islam higher than christianity.
If you can defend him on this I would like to hear it.
Paul
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#167853 - 10/17/09 07:09 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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I just ask for a source before I holler. Need to decide who needs the tongue lashing.
Calm down Rob. You aren't one of the options
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#167855 - 10/17/09 07:16 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Just sharing what I have learned for you to think on when it happens Shakey.
Paul
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#167857 - 10/17/09 07:21 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Source for this "Obama is pretty much anti Israel and has said if the final line is drawn he would defend Muslims over christians when it comes down to it." or is it just your opinion nnot based on another source?
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#167859 - 10/17/09 07:40 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I read a statement that said in one of Obama's books he stated, 'he would side with the Muslim if he had to choose in a time of religious persecution.' In his formative years his views were shaped in a Muslim school in Indonesia and it appears he continues to be influenced by Muslim beliefs. Look at the bias he has between Israel and the Palestinian people who are in actuality not Palestinians but are Jordan Arab refugees who can't be admitted into Jordan because it would blow the whole palestinain thing the Arabs have going. I won't argue with you on this point.
Paul
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#167862 - 10/17/09 07:51 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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"Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction. "
"The Audacity of Hope" [pg. 261]
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#167863 - 10/17/09 08:10 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Doesn't look as if he really wants any plug to the hole people of anti american cultures will use to over flood our country and culture. When they become the majority they will elect our president for us. Isn't that nice of them. We can have a bible burning and hand out fresh crisp copies of the Koran to everyone. I don't intend to be around for that day because Jesus will take all His people out before that, but millions will be here for that dark day.
Paul
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#167864 - 10/17/09 08:23 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Doesn't look as if he really wants any plug to the hole people of anti american cultures will use to over flood our country and culture.
How did you read that into what he actually said?
Did you notice he didn't say this: "'he would side with the Muslim if he had to choose in a time of religious persecution."
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#167867 - 10/17/09 08:36 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Kind of one of my fears knowing his background. From the quote you gave I did not see those exact words but maybe there is another quote somewhere other than the one you gave. I have nothing against Muslims in america who follow the American culture for the most part but I do fear the numbers such as is happening in Europe who move in have millions of births and soon out populate Americans and take over their country and this definately will happen if we don't plug the hole some time or other. It is a race as to whether America will become North Mexico or off Shore Araby.
Paul
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#167868 - 10/17/09 08:38 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Like they said about the DustBowl immigrants back in the 20's and 30's, Oklahoma took california without firing a shot!'
We better be vigilant and get people in our government who are focused on the Declaration of Independance and our life blood the Constitution!
Paul
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#167869 - 10/17/09 08:43 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Did Paul say ALL Arabs Dan?
Nice to see u still have that dramatic flair. You should try acting someday, you'd be a natural. Maybe take over for Beck? Good to know Davyd. Next time I say, "Christians are nothing but...________" I know you'll know that I don't mean ALL Christians.
Just as I'm sure the next time I say, "Unbelievers will burn in hell for all eternity". I know that you'll know I don't mean ALL unbelievers."
lol
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#167871 - 10/17/09 08:50 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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and soon out populate Americans and take over their country
They will be Americans.
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#167872 - 10/17/09 08:58 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: flicka]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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" I have nothing against Muslims in america who follow the American culture for the most part but I do fear the numbers such as is happening in Europe who move in have millions of births and soon out populate Americans and take over their country"
I thought it was the Hispanics who the breeders to be feared. Or is it all breeders that aren't "American"?
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#167873 - 10/17/09 09:01 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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But not the one we know love and jhave lived with for so long. Our culture will change drastically. It will after the rapture anyway.
Suppose we were taken over by Nazi people and they came into our country peaceably and multiplied rapidly and took over the country, would you be happy living in their culture!? I don't think you would call them Americans would you? I am not talking about most of the Muslim/Americans here in america today although I know there are terrorist sympathizers among them, but I know many are tied to Sharia law and would want us to enact it here in America as soon as they could push it through.
Paul
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#167874 - 10/17/09 09:06 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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I am not talking about most of the Muslim/Americans here in america today
That was exactly who Obama was writing about...Muslim Americans. So, I think you actually agree with his statement.
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#167875 - 10/17/09 09:07 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Well Paul we have a cancer growing here. The cancer's stated purpose is to make over the nation in their image. They already have a strong foothold. Help us expose them and do your part to piss off the religious right each and every day. 
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#167877 - 10/17/09 09:26 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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If you can defend him on this I would like to hear it
From the quote you gave I did not see those exact words but maybe there is another quote somewhere other than the one you gave.
Obviously, you didn't want to hear it...
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#167878 - 10/17/09 09:41 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I've quite a ways to go before i will trust our president. I have trusted him more in the past but I lose trust daily.
Paul
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#167879 - 10/17/09 11:04 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Kind of one of my fears knowing his background.
Perhaps this is where you are getting off track Paul?
Are you to live based on fear?
"IF" the USA is destroyed tomorror, would it cause you to lose faith?
Edited by Davyd (10/17/09 11:12 PM)
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#167880 - 10/17/09 11:09 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Well Paul we have a cancer growing here. The cancer's stated purpose is to make over the nation in their image. They already have a strong foothold. Help us expose them and do your part to piss off the religious right each and every day.
Ever heard it said that you shouldn't feel sorry for yourself cause there's always at least one person who is worse off? I'm beginning to think that when it comes to sanity you'll always have Paul! lol. Well, most days anyway... rofl
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#167881 - 10/18/09 12:07 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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And Paul and I will always have you
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#167899 - 10/18/09 07:08 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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GROUP HUG!
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#167904 - 10/18/09 10:20 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I hope that is what he was talking about Flicka. The nation christians would like to see Shakey, is one of religious freedom of the american style not foreign to our culture. Or the freedom to not believe in anything. We have always been a bible based nation and that is why God has blessed us up till the last century when we were infiltrated by those out to dispose of our creator. God withdrew slowly from a government that was withdrawing from Him and we are suffering more every day because of that. we have been the most blessed nation on the face of the earth. No longer.
Paul
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#167908 - 10/18/09 11:08 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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I hope that is what he was talking about Flicka.
"Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific assurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction. "
"The Audacity of Hope" [pg. 261]
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#167909 - 10/18/09 11:10 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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God withdrew slowly from a government that was withdrawing from Him and we are suffering more every day because of that. we have been the most blessed nation on the face of the earth. No longer.
Where was He during the great depression?
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#167910 - 10/18/09 12:18 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: flicka]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Livin in a van down by the river.
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#167914 - 10/18/09 03:17 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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The motto "In God We Trust" first appeared on a United States coin in 1864 but "In God We Trust" did not become the official U.S. national motto until after the passage of an Act of Congress in 1956. The last century was when Christianity tried to claim we were what we had never been up that point.
We are not and have never been a Bible based nation. Thank God, literally.
Freedom of religion is when a small group tries to force feed Christianity down the throats of everyone and those who want freedom from this religion get to ignore them.
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
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#167915 - 10/18/09 03:46 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: MerryA]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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In the great depression and dustbowl God stood back and let us reap what we had been sowing. It was based on greed. Plowing up all the plains and removing the grasses that held the dirt in place to make more money. (The equatorial forests being cut down and timber sold and set up to farm is suffering with famine and pestilence) Greed once again. God lets man make the noose he will soon slip his neck into when they leave Gods good rules and good practices. also unfair profiteering in the stockmarket brought it down and will continue to bring it down when it is run with greed.
MerryA America has always looked to God and the bible for direction. If you can't see that then your head is screwed on backwards. But those who were not christian and atheists too had a part in the forming of our government. The fact that they were included did not stop congress to begin their meetings with a prayer to God to bless their decisions. Many of the signersof the Declaration and the Constitution were licensed ministers and preachers.
Paul
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#167918 - 10/18/09 04:02 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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Freedom of religion is when a small group tries to force feed Christianity down the throats of everyone and those who want freedom from this religion get to ignore them.
I think I will take my own advice.
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"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
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#167920 - 10/18/09 04:14 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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In the great depression and dustbowl God stood back and let us reap what we had been sowing.
So how are we less blessed now, than then?
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#167921 - 10/18/09 04:15 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Livin in a van down by the river.
:0)
Edited by flicka (10/18/09 04:15 PM)
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#167922 - 10/18/09 04:23 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Probably much less flicka because of the greed and mis management and the biggee.. the nation turning away from God and His laws and also how we are treating Israel and pressuring them to give up land for peace. Lets face it if American people don't change we are on the fast track to being owned by another country or group of countries. Makes it easy for us to fall to the EU group and lose our old form of government. As popular as Obama is over there he may be president of the EU one day. Many of them see him as some kind of saviour to the world system.
Paul
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#167924 - 10/18/09 04:29 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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I am surprised at the number of people who are vilifying Obama over what they think he will do rather than "judging" the man for what he has (or even hasn't) done up until now.
I stated before this "using FEAR as a weapon" in the US, I cannot understand how others are so blind they do not see this is true.
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#167927 - 10/18/09 04:32 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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the nation turning away from God and His laws
What laws in particular?
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#167928 - 10/18/09 04:56 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Let me paint you a picture as to how I see prophecy and the modern world. I believe accuracy is in the high 80 per cent.
It begins in the book of Obadiah in the second half of the short book by this prophet. It describes what happens in The Day of the Lord. Many beleive we are entering that period known as the day of the Lord. It describes Israel as taking over the area known as Jordan to the east and the area up around damascus, Syria. The scriptures describes Damascus as laying in a ruinous heap..kind of like a nuclear strike might level it thinking back on the pictures of our nuclear strike on Japan. Anyway they will expand their territory greatly which will bring many Jewish immigrants from around the world to Israel.
The trigger for all this I think is when Israel makes a strike on Irans nuclear industry. I think it will set off a limited nuclear war in the ME. I believe the rapture will happen just prior to all this or during or shortly after. This will set the world searching for peace in the ME and will raise the European Union high in world power. It will bring out the anti christ leader who will by some means bring a seven year peace treaty to the ME. The war described in Obadiah will bring all this on. Israel will have peace and will tear down the safety wall they built and during that period of 3 and a half years will build a new temple on the temple mount and begin offering animal sacrifices again. At the end of that short period the world leader will come into the temple declaring he himself is God and corrupt the temple once again. Much more follows but I don't understand the timeline enough yet.
I know all this sounds far fetched but this is how I see it at this time.
I will keep studying anyway.
Paul
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#167929 - 10/18/09 04:59 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Flicka,there are rules of farming and how to treat the land and crops in the old testament that God gave Israel. Not being a farmer I never studied them but am just aware that they are there.
Paul
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#167930 - 10/18/09 05:08 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Let me paint you a picture as to how I see prophecy and the modern world. I believe accuracy is in the high 80 per cent.
How did you arrive at this percentage?
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#167931 - 10/18/09 05:10 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Flicka,there are rules of farming and how to treat the land and crops in the old testament that God gave Israel. Not being a farmer I never studied them but am just aware that they are there.
Paul
Surely this isn't what you were talking about with "the nation turning away from God and His laws"?
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#167933 - 10/18/09 05:53 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I just feel comfortable with that percentage.
Not entirely, Flicka. There are lots of laws. Mainly it is allowing our country to turn away from God. Not stopping anti God people and legislation. Allowing the murdering of innocent babies by abortion. Allowing sexual deviant behaviour to push so high into our culture. We are to love everyone but when they turn us away from God we should stand up to defend christianity and the bible. We have failed miserably so we have only ourselves to blame. If a group differs from the norm they should either go where they are in the majority or stay and not make waves for the majority. I know their are vicious people pro and anti out there that destroys any chance of peaceable culture.
Paul
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#167935 - 10/18/09 06:10 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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LMFAO...My apologies to Davyd.
You do realize you and your group differ from the norm, right Paul?
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#167939 - 10/18/09 06:19 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I think we are or have been in the majority Shakey, where do you get your statistics?
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#167941 - 10/18/09 07:11 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Fundamentalist Christians are in the majority, is that what you contend?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States
For one. 76% Christian, but that is broken down into the various denominations with 51% Protestant.
So you are claiming every Protestant is a fundamentalist?
_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#167942 - 10/18/09 08:51 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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LMFAO...My apologies to Davyd.
eh.... okay, but what did you do?!? lol
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#167943 - 10/18/09 09:01 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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http://www.elroy.net/ehr/fighttheright.html
How to Fight the Religious Right
A guide to defending yourself against Fundamentalist Christians
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
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#167944 - 10/18/09 09:14 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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I just feel comfortable with that percentage.
Not entirely, Flicka. There are lots of laws. Mainly it is allowing our country to turn away from God. Not stopping anti God people and legislation. Allowing the murdering of innocent babies by abortion. Allowing sexual deviant behaviour to push so high into our culture. We are to love everyone but when they turn us away from God we should stand up to defend christianity and the bible. We have failed miserably so we have only ourselves to blame. If a group differs from the norm they should either go where they are in the majority or stay and not make waves for the majority. I know their are vicious people pro and anti out there that destroys any chance of peaceable culture.
Paul
A couple things you said that I would agree with Paul. First the things that you are talking about are indeed "allowed". There has never ever been a Christian who was forced to have an abortion, do drugs, commit crimes, etc. They are "allowed" but not required. We, as Christians, ARE required to love. Considering the high rate of abortion, divorce, drugs, etc. I'd say we're doing a really poor job. Which law is it exactly that prevents you from following God? How are you personally being restricted from loving others?
The other thing I'd agree with is that if there is a problem, we did it to ourselves by sitting on our collective ass and not actually doing the small things that God requires. How can we expect God to do large govt things when we can't be bothered to turn off the damn TV long enough to take a little food to the neighbors????
If judgement is coming and I believe it is, it will be because of Christians REFUSAL to love others. Not because we enacted a stupid set of ADDITIONAL man-made laws. Why are you wanting more fence laws? Do you not understand that they don't work and are anti-God?
Edited by Davyd (10/18/09 09:59 PM)
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#167945 - 10/18/09 09:35 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: MerryA]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Why would I need or want to biblically refute the fundamentalists? It's much more fun to piss em off with science, logic or profanity
_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#167947 - 10/18/09 09:55 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Why would you want to make fun of someone you believe to be 'not right in the haid'??
Isn't that kinda like kicking a dog?
I just never have understood that.
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#167948 - 10/18/09 10:15 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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So, using science, logic or gawd forbid profanity to refute or piss off a fundamentalist is making fun of them? I said it was fun for me not that I was making fun of them. Generally they do a much better job of making fun of themselves unintentionally anyway.
_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#167949 - 10/18/09 10:20 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Wasn't speaking of fundamentalists, Shakey, I was including all christians. All christians are the majority of America. All together we are the body of Christ on this earth.
Guess we all have our own ideas, Davyd.
Paul
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#167951 - 10/18/09 10:30 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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And all Christian think alike and want the same things? I would submit you are much less likely to find agreement with your premises among most Christians than you think. Your fundamental view of faith separates you from most Christians I know and from most statistically.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#167954 - 10/18/09 10:55 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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So, using science, logic or gawd forbid profanity to refute or piss off a fundamentalist is making fun of them? I said it was fun for me not that I was making fun of them. Generally they do a much better job of making fun of themselves unintentionally anyway.
I guess I just don't get it shake. It, for the most part, seems to do absolutely no good. Or maybe it does and I just don't get the point.
Why would you want to deliberately piss off someone? How is that fun?
I don't know.... just laying here wondering why I continue to participate in this forum when it's neither fun nor educational for me.
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#167956 - 10/18/09 11:21 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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It (pissing off the religious right) is more of a joke than something ppl set out to do. The joke being that all the average person need do to piss off the religious right is just live their life. Something they are doing will piss them off.
You may have noticed how upset some (on both sides) with very rigid beliefs get when their beliefs are challenged. A rigid belief system is dangerous imho. When ppl stop seeing the possibility of valid points in opposing views is when the fighting starts or the minorities get trampled. I enjoy challenging the beliefs of the extremists on either side not to piss em off but to try to open their minds a bit.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#167959 - 10/19/09 12:02 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Davyd
Member
Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4112
Loc: People's Republic of Amerika
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Thanks for the reply shake. I don't know, maybe I'm just burnt out on it for now. I enjoy hearing about others beliefs and being able to share my own without wondering what part of it I'll get hammered on. And the seemingly constant bickering is really getting on my nerves.
I'll see ya up in the other forums.
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Blu E-CigsCleaner, Cheaper, Safer
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#168080 - 10/19/09 01:47 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Davyd]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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You are one extremist screwy cookie Shakey.
Paul
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#168100 - 10/19/09 02:33 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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lol Paul, how can I be extremist when I allow for the possibility that any or all belief systems may be right or wrong? Is it just that yours may very well be wrong (all evidence says it is) in my view? The only position I take on religion is that mortal man can not know the truth.
You are far more extreme in your certainty.
_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#168105 - 10/19/09 03:31 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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You are extreme the other way shakey in that you take in everything including trash and you think that lies and untruths don't affect your viewpoint??? Garbage in garbage out. I follow the truths that I have proven for myself and allow no garbage into the mix.
Paul
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#168106 - 10/19/09 03:46 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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The key is the "garbage out" part of your statement.
We have the ability to decide what is and what is not garbage. You on the other hand seem quite content with labeling everything garbage without having a look at it first.
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#168107 - 10/19/09 03:53 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Name a few of these lies and untruths. Oh and define trash please.
_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#168111 - 10/19/09 06:00 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I in the beginning allowed some trash into the mix till I found the truth I settled with. Since then anything that has to do with my spiritual condition other than the word of God or words written by other christians is all trash. What you take in and study is your business but if it isn't aligned with Gods word it is trash to me. BUT I do not say you shouldn't take in and read whatever you like as that is your business. So why pile on me for my beliefs? I am free to state them..if you don't like them ignore them! I am a messenger you find a likely target. So be it.
Paul
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#168115 - 10/19/09 06:17 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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You ever hear of the term, "don't kill the messenger", that's because messenger's are often killed and/or raked over the coals. You are obviously intelligent so you know that in taking the role of messenger you are thus taking the consequences as well.
The cool thing is, this is all...your "choice".
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#168117 - 10/19/09 06:19 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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So I'll put the bulls eye on my..expendable little toe on my left side! I favor my right more.
Paul
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#168118 - 10/19/09 06:21 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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So I'll put the bulls eye on my..expendable little toe on my left side! I favor my right more.
Paul
LOL...that might work, although I fear not everyone here is as good a shot as you'd hope. 
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#168121 - 10/19/09 07:07 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Why is it you fundies have such a persecution complex? This is only abt the message not the messenger. The message is seriously flawed, yet you buy it w/o question.
_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#168122 - 10/19/09 07:27 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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If you had my background and experience you would not be asking that question. I can't help you. You arethe only one who can help yourself to understand. There are no words I can say that will change your mind. I just lay it out as the bible says I should and the rest is up to you. I am not twisting any arms. You just don't likeit that I beleive the way I do when you just can't see it. Nothing I can do about that, Shakey.
I'll wear my steel toed boots, PD. 'Shoot low Sheriff he's ridin a shetland!' :-)
Paul
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#168123 - 10/19/09 07:36 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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I don't care what you believe. It is not abt you. I just engage you to expose the completely irrational aspects of your beliefs. You may not be twisting arms, but you are fishing for converts. Any potential converts deserve to see more than just your view.
_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#168168 - 10/20/09 05:45 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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I don't care what you believe. It is not abt you. I just engage you to expose the completely irrational aspects of your beliefs. You may not be twisting arms, but you are fishing for converts. Any potential converts deserve to see more than just your view.
You should take time off, shakey.
You look at what you say here.
If it were'nt personal: You believe that he's fishing for converts...................then you would just state your point and be done OR else you'd maybe read it and not comment.
I love to read Paulwa and get much from him. And I like reading others too...it is insane to pound away at him. It IS personal...it seems your mission to stop his ways. They are his own ways. just ignore or read and pass on or comment but why the meanness and the madness...you and cbal-craig showed just what YOU can do to a board for all others...with your insistent heckling of him.
Take the time to fall back on your own reading of your own posts ------you'll see. Or else drinking, smoking pot...etc is just not going to allow that to happen. I'd NEVER take the abuse of the posters here or at PQ again...I've learned. but you guys...some of you...never learn.
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#168219 - 10/20/09 10:14 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ævory]
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MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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I think the err in PaulWA's approach is clearly stated in his own words of disgust when Shakey doesn't yeild: "I can't help you."
People who push "help" on others without being asked can be tiresome.
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
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#168251 - 10/20/09 12:37 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ævory]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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I don't care what you believe. It is not abt you. I just engage you to expose the completely irrational aspects of your beliefs. You may not be twisting arms, but you are fishing for converts. Any potential converts deserve to see more than just your view. You should take time off, shakey. You look at what you say here. If it were'nt personal: You believe that he's fishing for converts...................then you would just state your point and be done OR else you'd maybe read it and not comment. I love to read Paulwa and get much from him. And I like reading others too...it is insane to pound away at him. It IS personal...it seems your mission to stop his ways. They are his own ways. just ignore or read and pass on or comment but why the meanness and the madness...you and cbal-craig showed just what YOU can do to a board for all others...with your insistent heckling of him. Take the time to fall back on your own reading of your own posts ------you'll see. Or else drinking, smoking pot...etc is just not going to allow that to happen. I'd NEVER take the abuse of the posters here or at PQ again...I've learned. but you guys...some of you...never learn.
I read it and did not say a word for years. He was asked nicely to confine it to religious forums and refused. I joined in the request nicely. He refused. Since I find his behavior offensive, I countered with what I knew would offend him, profanity. He whined. I told him all he need do was ask me to stop. He was not man enough to make the request. He selected instead to threaten to leave. I apologized telling him I didn't want him to go. He stayed and even toned it down for abt 3 days. I have nothing against Paul personally. It's the demand by the religious that their beliefs be respected while they refuse to respect others. I only questioned the aspects of his religion disproved by science, and I question his ability to know things mortal man can not know. I never once said the basis of his faith is wrong. On the contrary, I repeatedly said he may very well be right. He, on the other hand, has repeatedly told me I'm going to hell for not seeing things his way. He has also question the Christianity of others for disagreeing with him.
I find his behavior offensive for the same reason Merry stated. This offense is not taken personally, as something he is doing to just upset me.
If I were to go after somebody here for personal reasons, there are others who have taken far more personal shots at me.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#168260 - 10/20/09 01:19 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Shakey the peoplewho read what I have to say are not unthinking idiots as you seem to have stated. They are thinking people and pretty much set in there ways. I am not out there trying to persuade anyone to believe as I do. I do give my viewpoints and yes I do believe there are some christians who are in deep error and are not actually following Jesus Christ. Jesus said Himself that there would be some He would turn away because they never knew Him but were christians in name only. I am not picking on anyone. PD I don't know why you think I am trying to twist your arm to convert you. I can't do that, I have stated that many times. The Holy Spirit isthe only one who can convert anyone. Yes we probably are fishing. Jesus said He will make us fishers of men. We put out the gospel as bait and there will be some who will take a bite and be reeled in by Jesus to believe the gospel. That is Jesus way. As the parable about the sower who went out to sow his seed. Some would fall on stony ground, some would fall on good ground, grow and bring forth fruit. That is the gospel. I just state opinions which tome is fact though probably it is not to you. So just ignore what you don't believe if that is your option. You don't go around whacking everyone you have a conversation with just because you don't believe them..why do that here? I AM ONLY STATING MY BELIEFS if you don't like them ignore them..I have many other things to say that may interest you. I think some of the things I have to say irritate you because you don't truly believe what you hold on to so strongly, but it fits your over view of the picture in your mind and you are afraid to let go, so you blast the source that irritates you.
Paul
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#168261 - 10/20/09 01:23 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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I think some of the things I have to say irritate you because you don't truly believe what you hold on to so strongly, but it fits your over view of the picture in your mind and you are afraid to let go, so you blast the source that irritates you.
The same can be said about you when you go off on other people's and belief systems.
I am not irritated by your posts anymore Paul, I have taken you advice and ignore most of it when you start posting in to what appears to me "tongues" because I simply don't understand a word you are saying.
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#168275 - 10/20/09 01:48 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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I never said anything abt the intellectual capacity of those who read you. I did say that the potential converts deserve to see what's only revealed when your brand of Christianity is challenged.
What is I hold onto so strongly? I am undecided abt God, but pretty sure religion could mess up any message a God may have for us. I accept science based on the method and proof offered, and I'm open to new info.
Once again it seems you are projecting your feelings onto others. You don't irritate me. You do amuse me.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#168278 - 10/20/09 01:56 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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No PD it just disturbs me when I see people wandering away from my perceived best course...but it is their choice. I am glad you have settled down to a way of looking at what I put out as my views. I don't have any problem with that whatsoever. My view of the truth is in concrete and I am at total peace on those beliefs. It is like the parable where a man finds a pearl of great price and sells all and goes and buys it. The gospel is my pearl and I am totally happy with it for eternity.
Something I would like to just pass on that i saw the other day. On a tv show they were talking about evil disasters such as the sunami that killed so many people and other natural disasters some attribute to God. Defenders of God asked why people thought that if God loved the world He didn't do something to stop these disasters and save people. They said He made the physical laws in creating the universeand the earth and didn't want to break them. That we lived on the earth and had to reap the consequences of living in sometimes dangerous places. There is some truth to all of that but I think more than that, they are focusing on the wrong things. Satan when he brought sin into our hummanity also brought sin on Gods earth andcreation. This has caused many natural disasters because he desires mens souls for himself to prove to God how big he is. Instead I think we shoud focus on trust in God because with this trust, God can save us regardless of the disaster we are in. Focus on god and His love rather than any disaster going on around you. That is the only thing that can keep you safe. If you die you go directly to be with Him. People who die in disasters who don't have that trust in God do not go to be with God. Those who God choose to save may be because He has further work for them to do in their life. Yes I know it is all very subjective but it makes sense to those who trust in God. Just something I felt and wanted to share.
Paul
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#168290 - 10/20/09 02:44 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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It's the demand by the religious that their beliefs be respected while they refuse to respect others.
Edited by MerryA (10/20/09 02:44 PM)
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"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
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#168469 - 10/21/09 01:24 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: MerryA]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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No MerryA, Fundamentalist work hard at not being detracted from the words of God and that is why they cling only to the KJV bible as their only bible and they read it as the literalwords of God and believe there is no other book or way to be saved. If other folks don't feel that way then it is up to them to choose their path. Fundamentalists just know that any other path will not lead to God and that hell is at the end of all otherpaths. That is why we cling to the straight and narrow path shown by Jesus. That is what makes us fundamentalists. Not putting other religions down or other beliefs but we stand for our doctrine against them for our protection but without twisting their arms to join us.
Paul
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#168476 - 10/21/09 01:51 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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So you're "not putting other religions down" but "Fundamentalists just know that any other path will not lead to God and that hell is at the end of all otherpaths."
LOL - so telling me I'm going to hell because I don't believe like you is a compliment?
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"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
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#168479 - 10/21/09 02:06 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: MerryA]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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No we must all choose our paths. I thought you were on the christian path MerryA??
Paul
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#168480 - 10/21/09 02:13 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I wasn't too clear on this point, fundamentalists are a part of the christian pathway shown by Jesus. All christians are on the same path but with minor variations..well maybe big variations of doctrine,but they still follow Gods word. For some they believe with their mind but not their heart and put God last in their lives, they might find themselves not being able to enter the gates of the Holy city one day.
Hope that clears up this misunderstanding. Other religions we do feel would not be on the right path to God but that is their choice in life.
Paul
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#168532 - 10/21/09 10:06 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Paulwa, nearly everyone here respects your faith and some possibly even envy it. The problem is with your constant harping that the pathway you've found for yourself MUST BE FOLLOWED BY ALL OTHERS. You've repeated that sentiment here THOUSANDS of times over the years and it has gotten VERY tiresome.
Many, many times you have shown disrespect for the faith of others by implying that yours is superior to theirs, yet the only evidence you can produce is your subjective experiences and your own interpretations of obscure Bible verses. You don't seem to realize or care that others who have had very different experiences and/or interpret the Bible differently can legitimately come to different conclusions.
As long as you only listen to things that reinforce your opinions and utterly reject and even attack anything that runs counter to them, it is impossible to have rational discussions with you.
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#168560 - 10/22/09 12:03 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I am sorry Ghoti I don't wish to attack other religions, I am just saying for me they won't work because I believe I have found the true way through Jesus Christ. If others find a different way that is up to them, I do think the bible is the only way or I wouldn't have faith in it. You don't need to feel offence at that. I like to talk about my beliefs whether anyone else finds them intersting that is up to them. There will be a day when we will all find out the truth. If one day the world is missing millions of christians instantaneously we will all know the truth.
Paul
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#168605 - 10/22/09 09:21 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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You've found your way, I've found a different one, and pretty much everyone else who posts here has found a spiritual path that works for them. IMO that's all a good thing since we must each make our own connection with the creator and it should be unique to each of us.
If you could just accept and respect that concept we would have room for discussion, but if you are going to insist that we must all conform to your pathway then you will continue to get resistance from others. Evangelism may have its place among the lost and confused, but it is just annoying to most thoughtful and settled adults.
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#168624 - 10/22/09 11:37 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I keep telling you I am not insisting on anyone leaving their path to go on mine ghoti. Where do you get that? Everyone has their own path and is responsible for their choice. If I think that is the wrong path that doesn't mean I say leave it does it?
Paul
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#168631 - 10/22/09 11:53 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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How do you feel when people tell you your way is wrong Paul, that your own personal faith and reasoning is wrong?
Do you welcome the opinion or do you reject it sometimes with a impassioned attack of your own?
The same applies when you do it.
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#168644 - 10/22/09 12:09 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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It only bothers me in the way that I feel sorry for them turning from Jesus. That is their choice just as it is your choice to be agnostic, PD. You are agnostic aren't you? Seems I do remember you saying you believe there is a God though and see him in the beauty of nature. Am I right? I don't know about others but I feel I am dead center of the straight and narrow way Jesus spoke of, I hope and pray God will be merciful as I know He will for those on other paths. But then I know that it isn't God turning people away from His gate, but it is people choosing to turn away from His gate to go their own way. It is sad, huh?
Paul
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#168708 - 10/22/09 03:16 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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My path is very different from yours but I find it glorious and inspiring. Don't waste any sadness on me, please.
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#168745 - 10/22/09 11:26 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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I would think Paul, after all these years on this board, that you would understand that having people "feel sorry" for another, for whatever reason comes across as demeaning.
I can't begin to count that number of comments from people with one type of disability or another who have expressed their loathing of having someone "pity" or "feel sorry" for them because they are in a chair, or use crutches, or have troubles with mobility. No one (with any character at least) wants to be felt sorry for.
I understand what you are saying I think, and I actually believe your basic intentions are good...however, your delivery being constantly marked "return to sender" should give you a clue that people aren't that impressed with your sales pitch.
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#168750 - 10/23/09 05:00 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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If you weren't so screwed up, you'd realize that feeling a certain way about others doesn't come across the board to people (especially in this establishment) unless you post the words. Paulwa was never one to post that he felt sorry for folks. But whenever one is being hounded...as you and ghoti do to him, and cbal-craig, well...then one usually tries to explain themselves...and when they 'bite back' to your stupid, juivinile rhetoric...then...then they are FURTHER hounded back by youse as being either whiny, judgmental, or righteous, bigoted..you name it...cus youse LOVE LOVE LOVE to label it. It's what you live for...instead of reading someone, having enough belief in yourself and respect and honor of yourSelf, first, and then the other person...to let...........it...........fly. -------------but youse just can't do that so we get this stupid shit here...which,,is..what...turns ...people....off.
I read Paulwa, and further research, and agree and disagree with some of what he says...i mainly agree...but you have the ability to let his posts fly. Just like anyone else.
He has the right to post over and over and over agin, what he believes...just like you. If you rooster heads who think yer talking for the coop with all your concern of turning folk off to the boards...or expressing their own religious beliefs had more respect for those you THINK you are speaking for...you'd just realize that they HAVE the ability to speak. Ok...carry on, cus you WILL...reacting by posting crap like this...but know that it is YOU and doing this that turns a person off.
Edited by ævory (10/23/09 05:33 AM)
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#168768 - 10/23/09 08:06 AM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ævory]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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I"ve been more than understanding towards Paulwa. Neither Ghoti nor I have attacked, we have both been doing what a message board is created for...we have been having respectful conversations.
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#168841 - 10/23/09 02:33 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Ronda, thanks, I feel better and a bit vindicated. Yes I blabber on about things that are dear to my heart but only poop to others. So if you think my meanderins is poop...why must you pick it up and handle it and smear it all over yourselves and dripping off your nose from sniffing it to death and then complain to me as if I dumped it in your lap. NOT..I only spoke it as my opinion and let it lay for those who are interested. If you don't want to complain about me then don't even go near it and especially don't pick it up and handle it!!
Thank you.
Paul
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#168842 - 10/23/09 02:36 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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And we only spoke back Paul...that's what a message board is for. If you wanted to express yourself without input from the readers you could create a Blog and Blog yourself. Putting it "out there" opens your words up to both support and criticism.
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#168843 - 10/23/09 02:43 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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How cute! Birds of a feather blithering together...lol We'd rather avoid the waste you spew, but we expose it because so many are so gullible. How else can one explain Sarah Palin? lol
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#168845 - 10/23/09 02:48 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Sarah will explain herself to you one day Shakey when she is our beloved president. :-)
Paul
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#168846 - 10/23/09 02:50 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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I'll definitely have to buy myself a industrial popcorn machine.
If/when Sarah runs I will happily volunteer to be her NM campaign manager.
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#168885 - 10/23/09 06:49 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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oh..Judy..Judy..Judy....somewhere over your shoulder...ah..ha ha. Probly be a pretty short career, PD.
Paul
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#168888 - 10/23/09 07:12 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Paulwa, your constant posts declaring that your religious beliefs are the ONLY correct pathway are actually direct attacks on everyone else's faith. If you and Ronda can't see that, then you are the blind leading the blind.
If you wanted to avoid all the animosity, just accept that your pathway is the correct one FOR YOU but that others are free to disagree without constantly implying that they are condemned to eternal hellfire for it.
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#168890 - 10/23/09 07:34 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Well that is what the bible says Ghoti but if you don't believe the bible then what does it matter what I say. Like I have always said we are individually responsible for our choices. If a person has made his choice and it does not include the path in the bible but some other path then they have to follow the directions of their religion and what I have tosay about it is of no consequences. Just the ranting of a blind person in their eyes. What difference does it matter what I say. I still say if my opinion of other paths disturb a person on that path then they are not very secure in their faith of that path. Jesus said Hell hath enlarged itself...so I guess He expects large crowds of people heading there on all the paths that lead away from the creator. I guess He should know if anyone should because He holds the keys to Heaven and hell and no one else does. If your faith is strong then no words from anyone can shake your faith. If you are shook then you need to rethink your religion and your allegiance to its God.
Paul
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#168892 - 10/23/09 07:50 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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hmmmm...so if my faith says Jesus and your God are already in hell, and your faith will take you down to join them. That's ok with you? It better be, cuz that's what you are saying to all of different faiths.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#168894 - 10/23/09 07:57 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Yes it is ok with me if you say that Shakey. Won't bother me I have total faith where I am heading and the bible describes it as peace and beautiful and fullof love of God for all. I am at total peace with that.
Paul
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#168897 - 10/23/09 08:12 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Ok. Then I guess it's open warfare...lol
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#168902 - 10/23/09 09:15 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Paulwa, I KNOW my beliefs are correct FOR ME. The reason I know it, however, is totally subjective, and because of that I don't go around telling people they should follow my lead.
I know that my subjective evidence, while convincing to me, can't really be directly experienced by others and I don't expect or want anyone to just accept what I say. Hopefully they will have their own subjective experiences with the creator will give them their own understanding that makes sense to them, just as you and I have.
You BELIEVE the Bible is the word of God, but that doesn't prove that it's true.
You BELIEVE that Jesus is the son of God and the only pathway to salvation, but that doesn't prove it's true.
I accept the fact that these things are convincing to you, and I respect that. They aren't convincing to me and many others, and that obviously isn't OK with you.
Expecting others to share your view of religion just because you say so is the height of arrogance IMO and diminishes the creator rather than glorifying him. How do you know that he doesn't reveal himself to many others in ways that they will understand, just like he has to you?
Edited by ghoti (10/23/09 09:17 PM)
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#168905 - 10/23/09 09:38 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I don't get it ghoti I have said it is ok with me any number of ways before, how others believe.They can put their faith and trust in the easter bunny or the tooth fairy and it won't mean anything to me. I have just said because of my beliefs that I feel sad for them from my viewpoint but if they are happy with it who am I to complain. I don't care what any of you choose to believe if you are happy with it that is great.
Paul
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#168911 - 10/23/09 09:53 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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You may say you're OK with the beliefs of others, but then you constantly post things about yours being the only pathway to salvation and how all others are doomed. That isn't really acceptance of the beliefs of others, you know.
I'm happy that you have your faith, not sad for you. The creator has obviously chosen to reveal himself to you in a very different way than he has to me, and that's fine. Others have had very different revelations, and that's fine, too.
IMO true tolerance means accepting that the mansions of the creator are infinite, and that there are many pathways that lead people to him. That's all that really matters in the long run, isn't it?
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#168917 - 10/23/09 10:04 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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There is a scripture in the new testament where Jesus says He is the only way to the Father and there is no other. I believe Him. Guess that makes me a fundie but so be it. I won't put anyone down for choosing their own path. Just wish them good fortune in their quest.
Can we end this? Go however you feel like going because in the end you will have to stand or fall on what you believe and do with your life. Not anything I have said.
Paul
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#168925 - 10/23/09 10:16 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Yup, and if I have to stand in judgement on the basis of how I've lived my life and my beliefs, I will do so with humility and confidence. As long as you can say the same, then all is well.
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#168928 - 10/23/09 10:18 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Agreed Ghoti.
Paulwa
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#168935 - 10/23/09 11:01 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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See Ronda, this is what nice, polite "debate" and "discussion" can do, a meeting of minds, an "agree to disagree" with a handshake.
I call for a group hug...anyone? anyone at all? someone? lol...ok...Ronda come here...Greg and I need a hug.
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#168936 - 10/23/09 11:15 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: ParaDude]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Hey! Just a minute here! I demand if there's a non agreement it include no judgment at our end. We all got enough here
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#168937 - 10/23/09 11:23 PM
Re: Skepticism of Darwin's Theory Continues to Gro
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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hug an I'm goin ta bed! :-)
Paul
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