#47733 - 07/04/06 11:36 AM
Random Mutation generator
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Evolution via Random Mutation is nothing more than an urban legend. Why does this superstition persist? I believe it's because 99.9% of the people who believe it and talk about it have never conducted an experiment like this to see with their own eyes that it just doesn't work. Evolution through Random Mutation:
Possibly the Greatest Myth in Modern Science
The idea that random mutation creates biological diversity fails computer simulations*; it fails if you compute the statistics; and it fails biologically. This observation was confirmed by Theodosius Dobzhansky's fruit fly radiation experiments, Goldschmidt's gypsy moth experiments, and others. Decades of research were conducted in the early 20th century, bombarding fruit flies and moths with radiation in hope of mutating their DNA and producing improved creatures. These experiments were a total failure – there were no observed improvements – only weak, sickly, deformed fruit flies.
A bit of experimentation with the Random Mutation generator makes it clear why:
Language, plans and instructions do not evolve from the "bottom up." Language, plans and instructions do not evolve in microscopic increments, one or two letters at a time. They evolve in increments of entire words, phrases, sentences and paragraphs. Language, plans and instructions evolve as an expression of ideas which come first. When you write or speak, you begin with intent which becomes a sentence made of words which are made of letters. When you translate from English to French, for example, you cannot translate one letter at a time. And you can't really translate one word at a time either, that's a disaster. You have to translate idea for idea. The same is true when you edit a document that you or someone else has written - the letters are subordinate to the words, which are subordinate to the ideas. Ideas come first.
Evolution via Random Mutation is nothing more than an urban legend. Why does this superstition persist? I believe it's because 99.9% of the people who believe it and talk about it have never conducted an experiment like this to see with their own eyes that it just doesn't work.
A Newer, 21st Century View of Evolution
G.K. Chesterton, the well-known 20th century intellectual, said "The Christian is quite free to believe that there is a considerable amount of settled order and inevitable development in the universe. But the materialist is not allowed to admit into his spotless machine the slightest speck of spiritualism or miracle." Chesterton is suggesting that battle over 'creation vs. evolution' is, to some extent, a false dichotomy.
http://www.randommutation.com/darwinianevolution.htm
Evolution via Random Mutation is nothing more than an urban legend. Why does this superstition persist? I believe it's because 99.9% of the people who believe it and talk about it have never conducted an experiment like this to see with their own eyes that it just doesn't work.
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#47734 - 07/04/06 12:45 PM
Re: Random Mutation generator
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StarlightAngel
Member
Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
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ummm... excuse me, but g.k. chesterton was neither a scientist nor particularly modern so i do not understand why you would cite him as a scientific reference.
This observation was confirmed by Theodosius Dobzhansky's fruit fly radiation experiments, Goldschmidt's gypsy moth experiments, and others. Decades of research were conducted in the early 20th century, bombarding fruit flies and moths with radiation in hope of mutating their DNA and producing improved creatures. These experiments were a total failure – there were no observed improvements – only weak, sickly, deformed fruit flies. total pseudoscience. why could you not find any more recent and credible genetic studies? simple mutation itself does not make for more "improved" species; only natural selection can determine which strains of DNA make it to the next generation.
Language, plans and instructions do not evolve from the "bottom up." Language, plans and instructions do not evolve in microscopic increments, one or two letters at a time. They evolve in increments of entire words, phrases, sentences and paragraphs. Language, plans and instructions evolve as an expression of ideas which come first.
of course ideas came first. but the VERY FIRST ideas were most likely simple behaviors which could be communicated through gestures, imitation, demonstration and other nonverbal expressions. words, pictograms, and alphabets didn't evolve until human societies became stable and complex enough to need more complex forms of communication. have you ever read richard dawkins or steven pinker on the evolution of language?
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#47735 - 07/04/06 02:31 PM
Re: Random Mutation generator
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I
Member
Registered: 02/28/00
Posts: 2513
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lightning(creation scientist)
your statement: "Evolution via Random Mutation is nothing more than an urban legend. Why does this superstition persist? I believe it's because 99.9% of the people who believe it and talk about it have never conducted an experiment like this to see with their own eyes that it just doesn't work. "
The above is a description of religion
Your statement: "Possibly the Greatest Myth in Modern Science"
The greatest myth is and has always been, religions and their" gods "
Your statement: "The idea that random mutation creates biological diversity fails computer simulations*;
Computers can't even agree on the weather. Does that mean there is no weather?
Your statement: "and it fails biologically"
It obviously did not fail biologically
Your statement: "This observation was confirmed by Theodosius Dobzhansky's fruit fly radiation experiments, Goldschmidt's gypsy moth experiments, and others. Decades of research were conducted in the early 20th century, bombarding fruit flies and moths with radiation in hope of mutating their DNA and producing improved creatures. These experiments were a total failure – there were no observed improvements – only weak, sickly, deformed fruit flies."
And what makes his research so important, and Darwins research nothing more than fiction?. We can only wonder if he used to much radiation, or if there was some other problem in the setup
Your statement: "Language, plans and instructions do not evolve from the "bottom up."
You mean we already know things, and slowly slowly learned not to know them? That piles of things are upside down? When was the last time you went somewhere, without taking the steps to get there? Accordingly a seed is the mature plant. When did you last see an adult grow into a baby?
, Your statement: "Language, plans and instructions do not evolve in microscopic increments, one or two letters at a time. They evolve in increments of entire words, phrases, sentences and paragraphs."
Language, plans, instructions, entire words and phrases, were first built upon, the most simple thoughts, the beginning of the plans, the letters of the words, which in turn were also built upon even simpler foundations
Your statement: "Language, plans and instructions evolve as an expression of ideas which come first. When you write or speak, you begin with intent which becomes a sentence made of words which are made of letters"
Much came before the ideas. Animals made noises automatically (no plan or language). Slowly they begin to recognize those sounds, movements, expressions. in the others, and understood they were feeling and reacting to the same things.. There is original language. That language was preceded by experience, preceded by sensory organs, preceded by a brain , preceded by a body, a body preceded by its elements, which were preceded by atoms, etc. etc. etc.. The universe itself, displays that the simple must come before the complex
Your statement: "When you translate from English to French, for example, you cannot translate one letter at a time. And you can't really translate one word at a time either, that's a disaster. You have to translate idea for idea. The same is true when you edit a document that you or someone else has written - the letters are subordinate to the words, which are subordinate to the ideas. Ideas come first.
Translating is another subject matter. Nature has nothing to translate, it just proceeds.
Your statement: "Evolution via Random Mutation is nothing more than an urban legend. Why does this superstition persist? I believe it's because 99.9% of the people who believe it and talk about it have never conducted an experiment like this to see with their own eyes that it just doesn't work"
Scientific study with all the passing time and instruments involved and its endless successes; could only be considered an urban legend by a complete moron. We know why the real superstition continues to persist, because the criminals take little children and damage their minds, most of the time permanently
Your statement: "A Newer, 21st Century View of Evolution
" G.K. Chesterton, the well-known 20th century intellectual, said "The Christian is quite free to believe that there is a considerable amount of settled order and inevitable development in the universe. But the materialist is not allowed to admit into his spotless machine the slightest speck of spiritualism or miracle." Chesterton is suggesting that battle over 'creation vs. evolution' is, to some extent, a false dichotomy."
There is nothing new, about that old, moldy, religious garbage
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#47736 - 07/04/06 02:58 PM
Re: Random Mutation generator
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Gimpy77
Member
Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 800
Loc: Nebraska
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Originally posted by I:Chesterton is suggesting that battle over 'creation vs. evolution' is, to some extent, a false dichotomy."
[/QB] I'll just stick with my veiw that god is the driveing force of evolution.
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#47737 - 07/04/06 03:49 PM
Re: Random Mutation generator
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Jesus the King and Lord and creator of this world and you will be here soon to greet his followers and force feed knowledge into the unbelieving hearts. Well,,,duhhhh how come I didn't see that before it was too late?? See you been told a million times or more right here at NM. Believe now and turn your life over to the one who created you and has a vested interest and love for you. He made the only way for you to live with him eternally. Accept him and do it! 'I' he would love your brilliance of mind, you are one of a kind pard. Paul Paul
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#139601 - 11/09/08 09:54 AM
Re: Random Mutation generator
[Re: I]
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TheFifteen
Member
Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 2267
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lightning(creation scientist)
your statement: "Evolution via Random Mutation is nothing more than an urban legend. Why does this superstition persist? I believe it's because 99.9% of the people who believe it and talk about it have never conducted an experiment like this to see with their own eyes that it just doesn't work. "
The above is a description of religion
Your statement: "Possibly the Greatest Myth in Modern Science"
The greatest myth is and has always been, religions and their" gods "
Your statement: "The idea that random mutation creates biological diversity fails computer simulations*;
Computers can't even agree on the weather. Does that mean there is no weather?
Your statement: "and it fails biologically"
It obviously did not fail biologically
Your statement: "This observation was confirmed by Theodosius Dobzhansky's fruit fly radiation experiments, Goldschmidt's gypsy moth experiments, and others. Decades of research were conducted in the early 20th century, bombarding fruit flies and moths with radiation in hope of mutating their DNA and producing improved creatures. These experiments were a total failure – there were no observed improvements – only weak, sickly, deformed fruit flies."
And what makes his research so important, and Darwins research nothing more than fiction?. We can only wonder if he used to much radiation, or if there was some other problem in the setup
Your statement: "Language, plans and instructions do not evolve from the "bottom up."
You mean we already know things, and slowly slowly learned not to know them? That piles of things are upside down? When was the last time you went somewhere, without taking the steps to get there? Accordingly a seed is the mature plant. When did you last see an adult grow into a baby?
, Your statement: "Language, plans and instructions do not evolve in microscopic increments, one or two letters at a time. They evolve in increments of entire words, phrases, sentences and paragraphs."
Language, plans, instructions, entire words and phrases, were first built upon, the most simple thoughts, the beginning of the plans, the letters of the words, which in turn were also built upon even simpler foundations
Your statement: "Language, plans and instructions evolve as an expression of ideas which come first. When you write or speak, you begin with intent which becomes a sentence made of words which are made of letters"
Much came before the ideas. Animals made noises automatically (no plan or language). Slowly they begin to recognize those sounds, movements, expressions. in the others, and understood they were feeling and reacting to the same things.. There is original language. That language was preceded by experience, preceded by sensory organs, preceded by a brain , preceded by a body, a body preceded by its elements, which were preceded by atoms, etc. etc. etc.. The universe itself, displays that the simple must come before the complex
Your statement: "When you translate from English to French, for example, you cannot translate one letter at a time. And you can't really translate one word at a time either, that's a disaster. You have to translate idea for idea. The same is true when you edit a document that you or someone else has written - the letters are subordinate to the words, which are subordinate to the ideas. Ideas come first.
Translating is another subject matter. Nature has nothing to translate, it just proceeds.
Your statement: "Evolution via Random Mutation is nothing more than an urban legend. Why does this superstition persist? I believe it's because 99.9% of the people who believe it and talk about it have never conducted an experiment like this to see with their own eyes that it just doesn't work"
Scientific study with all the passing time and instruments involved and its endless successes; could only be considered an urban legend by a complete moron. We know why the real superstition continues to persist, because the criminals take little children and damage their minds, most of the time permanently
Your statement: "A Newer, 21st Century View of Evolution
" G.K. Chesterton, the well-known 20th century intellectual, said "The Christian is quite free to believe that there is a considerable amount of settled order and inevitable development in the universe. But the materialist is not allowed to admit into his spotless machine the slightest speck of spiritualism or miracle." Chesterton is suggesting that battle over 'creation vs. evolution' is, to some extent, a false dichotomy."
There is nothing new, about that old, moldy, religious garbage
This is the day, This is the day That the Lord has made, That the Lord has made Let us rejoice, Let us rejoice And be glad in it, And be glad in it This is the day that the Lord has made Let us rejoice and be glad in it This is the day, This is the day That the Lord has made
XV
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#139633 - 11/09/08 12:38 PM
Re: Random Mutation generator
[Re: TheFifteen]
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cronnie36
Member
Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 429
Loc: Florida
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WHAT?
I am confused.
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#139644 - 11/09/08 04:11 PM
Re: Random Mutation generator
[Re: cronnie36]
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Paul I
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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"I", can it be? Welcome back. You have been missed! Paul I
_________________________
"...only the shadow knows"
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#139645 - 11/09/08 04:22 PM
Re: Random Mutation generator
[Re: Paul I]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Hi I! We creationists are in for it now, huh?:-) Paul
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#139646 - 11/09/08 04:33 PM
Re: Random Mutation generator
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paul I
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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Just realized this is a very old post-2006. "I" has not returned, only resurrected. Paulwa, perhaps the rapture visited him.
_________________________
"...only the shadow knows"
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#139659 - 11/09/08 11:20 PM
Re: Random Mutation generator
[Re: Paul I]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Wonder what happened to I? Don't think anyone knew anything about this person..not even gender for sure. Very intelligent thinker and debator though. Paul
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#139660 - 11/09/08 11:59 PM
Re: Random Mutation generator
[Re: Paul I]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Paulwa, perhaps the rapture visited him. lolol !
This place just ain't the same without him/her/it!
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#139661 - 11/10/08 12:01 AM
Re: Random Mutation generator
[Re: flicka]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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I wonder who started this thread?
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#139662 - 11/10/08 01:27 AM
Re: Random Mutation generator
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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How can you post without being registered??? Paul
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#139731 - 11/10/08 11:34 AM
Re: Random Mutation generator
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paul I
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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It's because we have generated a random mutation of a post. We are gods of the message board!
_________________________
"...only the shadow knows"
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