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#41243 - 06/19/06 10:33 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
cass
Member


Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3505
Loc: WA 		i agree with pd on the semantics. it is politics that has created different definitions in order to make it more palatable. for god's sakes, oregon couldn't even figure out how the docs were going to write the script...take x a day until pain is gone?
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#41245 - 06/19/06 10:48 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by Xuxan:
Did Katie McCarron choose to die? No.
So it was not suicide.
Was Kate McCarron under a doctors care because she was dying? No.
So it was not palliative care.
Did she ask a doctor for help to die? No.
So it was not Physician Assisted Suicide.

Are some people calling this a mercy killing because she had autism? Yes.

Semantics are the difference between a legal action and an illegal one.
I thought we ventured away from the case of Katie and started talking about other things.

Katie was killed by her Mother, her mother has been charged with murder, we await the trial. What the hell more do you want? Yes she is out on bail, good, bad, doesn't matter, the FACT remains that there are lots of people out of bail and they didn't kill or hurt a disabled person. Quit trying to make it out to be something it is not. Wait for the trail, hear the evidence, and if this Mother doesn't get convicted or if the sentence in to lenient then cry foul, hell, I might join the chorus if she gets off too easy.

Until then...give it a rest.
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#41246 - 06/19/06 10:49 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
cass
Member


Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3505
Loc: WA 		no doubt on the katie case, susan.

but, as mr. soul bemoaned, this thread has taken 2 turns. perhaps the second debate should be another thread.
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#41247 - 06/19/06 10:49 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
flicka
Member


Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
Quote:
Originally posted by cass:
...take x a day until pain is gone?
The hospice pharmacist who helped euthanize my mother told me there was "no such thing as an overdose" when I asked him the dosage on liquid morphine.
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#41248 - 06/19/06 10:51 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
flicka
Member


Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
Quote:
Originally posted by cass:
perhaps the second debate should be another thread.
sorry. my computer and I are running slow.
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#41250 - 06/19/06 10:53 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by Xuxan:
Everyone does not agree it was murder, some say it was and I quote "a mercy killing".
So? If everyone agreed it was murder there would be no need of a trail. Everyone didn't agree OJ was guilty. Everyone did not agree that what's her name was guilty of murdering her children either, they blamed it on post partum depression.

That's why we have a justice system. If everyone agreed with you, or with me, we could simply take them out and hang them right away.
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#41251 - 06/19/06 10:55 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by Xuxan:
Everyone does not agree it was murder, some say it was and I quote "a mercy killing".
Btw - and I will wait for all the evidence to be presented, perhaps it was a mercy killing. One thing for sure, a person like yourself would never make it on the jury, and thank God for that. I on the other hand would be able to say with absolute assurance to the judge that I could wait for all the evidence to be presented before I deemed someone "guilty" or 'not guilty"
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#41252 - 06/19/06 10:55 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee 		Katie McCarron was murdered. And the legal system is addressing this as we type. The mother has been charged and will be tried by a jury of her peers.

Ya'll can argue about Oregan law vs reality etc all you want - doesn't have anything to do with this case.

The child having autism obviously did not make a difference to the prosecutor in bringing charges - I doubt it will make a difference to the jury in their deliberations either - people are not nearly as stupid as they appear sometimes. :p
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#41253 - 06/19/06 10:56 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
Katie McCarron was murdered. And the legal system is addressing this as we type. The mother has been charged and will be tried by a jury of her peers.

Ya'll can argue about Oregan law vs reality etc all you want - doesn't have anything to do with this case.

The child having autism obviously did not make a difference to the prosecutor in bringing charges - I doubt it will make a difference to the jury in their deliberations either - people are not nearly as stupid as they appear sometimes. :p
Or as anti-crip as some would like it to seem.
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#41254 - 06/19/06 11:41 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
candra
Member


Registered: 05/17/00
Posts: 2877
Loc: Ripon, CA US 		Yes, but under our justice system, you are innocent until proven guilty, so "being charged" does not mean "guilty". remember OJ. He was also "charged". But he wasn't convicted (in a criminal court)

Xuxan, I think you are way too close to this case as you raised an autistic son and you think "if I did it, than anyone can" Not true. There are all sorts of levels of autism. When a kid throws his "crap" (shit) all over the walls, you can't very well keep him in a mainsream home (I've known folks in that situation). And be real, it's not like your son can go out and get a job in mainstream society (he can't read). You know he can't and that is why you are trying to create a business/job for him. I'm saying, good for you, but hey, it's not like he could find a mainstream job.

Be clear, I'm not defending this woman, but I don't think she should automatically be condemned because she killed an "autistic" kid. After all the Texas post-partum "let's drown them all" wife wasn't convicted either. (on a technicality, it was overturned)

I'm just saying... innocent until proven guilty. Let the jury decide.

Candy
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#41255 - 06/20/06 01:31 AM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
cass
Member


Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3505
Loc: WA 		posted by candy:

"Be clear, I'm not defending this woman, but I don't think she should automatically be condemned because she killed an "autistic" kid. After all the Texas post-partum "let's drown them all" wife wasn't convicted either. (on a technicality, it was overturned)"

i can't believe you don't see the problem with this sentiment.
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#41256 - 06/20/06 02:10 AM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
B]but I don't think she should automatically be condemned[/B]
I don't see a problem with it, doesn't matter if it was a kid with a disability or a "normal" kids. The fact remains that in our system of justice EVERYONE has a presumption of innocence. That presumption is in force until the jury and judge decide whether or not she should be "condemned".

With all its flaws and all its failings, the "presumed innocent" aspect of our justice system is one of the things that sets us apart from the majority of other nation's justice systems. I'd much rather that sort of system than one that says the opposite, that one is guilty until they are proven innocent.
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#41257 - 06/20/06 02:13 AM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America 		btw again - the way many here in this forum have been talking it looks to me like you've already listened to all the evidence and have convicted her. Thankfully this judge/jury/executioner system you all seem to be endorsing only exists in backwards nations.
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#41258 - 06/20/06 03:09 AM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
cass
Member


Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3505
Loc: WA 		what is there to prove, pd? she admitted killing a kid. maybe a "technicality" will get her out of it, too. that is our justice system. i guess we wait and see.
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#41259 - 06/20/06 08:30 AM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
StarlightAngel
Member


Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table 		i think the mother would have been psychologically unfit and incapable of taking care of a "normal" kid, let alone one with special needs.
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