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#41222 - 06/19/06 08:17 AM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
StarlightAngel
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Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
Quote:
Originally posted by cass:
that said, helping a friend to die and killing a child share no common ground.
my point exactly.
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#41223 - 06/19/06 08:23 AM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Why does every discussion of parents killing gimp children come back to assisted suicide? :rolleyes:

THE CHILDREN DID NOT CHOOSE SUICIDE. THIS IS NOT THE SUBJECT AND STOP TURNING IT INTO THAT.
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#41226 - 06/19/06 11:15 AM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
StarlightAngel
Member


Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Why does every discussion of parents killing gimp children come back to assisted suicide? :rolleyes:

THE CHILDREN DID NOT CHOOSE SUICIDE. THIS IS NOT THE SUBJECT AND STOP TURNING IT INTO THAT.
LOL mea culpa. probably goes to my comment on how NDY undercuts the strength their own position by overgeneralizing:

Quote:
the problem i see with NDY is that they highlight cases from one end of the spectrum - terri schiavo, infanticide etc. - as rationale for their opposition to ALL forms of assisted suicide/euthanasia including (and here is where i have the biggest problem w/ their thinking) the right for MENTALLY COMPETENT adults to make their own end-of-life decisions.
my bad.
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"oh yeah, life goes on, long after the thrill of living it is gone."

http://www.autonomynow.org


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#41227 - 06/19/06 11:19 AM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by Sylvana:
Euthanasia is NOT LEGAL in Oregon. Assisted Suicide is. There is a huge difference.
What is the difference? Both are by acts of another helping someone to leave this world in some sort of peace.

Mr.Soul - I don't know how threads evolve...evolution is real tho, get used to it.
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#41228 - 06/19/06 11:36 AM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
KAR
Member


Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 1823
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Quote:
Originally posted by Sylvana:
Euthanasia is NOT LEGAL in Oregon. Assisted Suicide is. There is a huge difference.
What is the difference? Both are by acts of another helping someone to leave this world in some sort of peace.

Mr.Soul - I don't know how threads evolve...evolution is real tho, get used to it.
Well it sure as hell isn't "intelligent design", must be evolution.
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#41229 - 06/19/06 11:38 AM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
LOL KAR...touche' eh
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#41230 - 06/19/06 04:51 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
cass
Member


Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3505
Loc: WA
what is the difference? webster's:

Main Entry: eu·tha·na·sia
Pronunciation: "yü-th&-'nA-zh(E-)&
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek, easy death, from euthanatos, from eu- + thanatos death -- more at THANATOS
: the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals (as persons or domestic animals) in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy

Oregon's law "permits" assisted suicide.

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#41231 - 06/19/06 05:12 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by cass:
what is the difference? webster's:

Main Entry: eu·tha·na·sia
Pronunciation: "yü-th&-'nA-zh(E-)&
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek, easy death, from euthanatos, from eu- + thanatos death -- more at THANATOS
: the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals (as persons or domestic animals) in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy

Oregon's law "permits" assisted suicide.
Assisted Suicide also is - the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of a hopelessly sick or injured individual in a relatively painless way for reasons of mercy.
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#41233 - 06/19/06 07:11 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
joyt
Member


Registered: 04/16/01
Posts: 19345
Loc: AccessibleProperties.net
Quote:
Originally posted by Sylvana:
Assisted Suicide is a process by which a competant adult can secure sufficient information and medication from a physician to end their own lives.
FAQs about Physician-Assisted Suicide

Quote:
Q: Are euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide the same thing?

A: No. They are two legally distinct procedures for hastening death. In euthanasia, a doctor injects a patient with a lethal dosage of medication. In physician-assisted suicide, a physician prescribes a lethal dose of medication to a patient, but the patient - not the doctor - administers the medication. Euthanasia is illegal in every state in the union, including Oregon. Physician-assisted suicide has been legal in Oregon since November 1997. Oregon is the only state in the Union that has legalized physician-assisted suicide.
http://www.oregon.gov/DHS/ph/pas/faqs.shtml#euthanasia

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#41234 - 06/19/06 07:24 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
cass
Member


Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3505
Loc: WA
i see. looks like legal and/or political semantics to me.

by the websters definition, physician assisted suicide can still be called euthanasia, but whatever. this is not a debate over semantics.

i knew i had this article someplace...for those interested in the semantics.

http://www.internationaltaskforce.org/fctwww.htm

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#41235 - 06/19/06 09:12 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
In physician-assisted suicide, a physician prescribes a lethal dose of medication to a patient, but the patient - not the doctor - administers the medication.
That isn't true, in paliative care the physician orders the morphine and the nurse injects in, usually thro an IV.
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#41237 - 06/19/06 10:06 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
But it is the patient who must administer the drug.
That is a load of crap. Who told you that? I volunteered on a paliative care ward for almost a year and know first hand that it is the nurses who administer the dosage of morphine. I've had long, very long mid-night talks with nurses and their families about this and I can tell you that EVERY family I talked to was grateful for the nurses and the doctors for helping their loved one leave the world in relative comfort.

Apples and Oranges?? Exactly! Euthanasia and assisted suicide are the same thing, the only difference is that one is done on a regular basis by medical professionals and the other is done by someone (friend or family) who cares enough to help those who can't help themselves for one reason or another.
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#41238 - 06/19/06 10:17 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
cass
Member


Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3505
Loc: WA
the only difference is semantics. political and legal semantics.

if one reads the article i linked, one will see how important semantics are in this ongoing debate. oregon is cited many times there. as well as the role the hemlock society played in getting that law passed.

and btw, sources such as oregon.gov are going to post legal/political definitions.

question: the oregon law says one can get a prescription. what if one is physically incapable of taking it w/o help? (rhetorical question). so, isn't the law discriminatory against those people? it does exactly what pd said earlier; i.e. allows ABs the right but not, say, karen, does it not?

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#41241 - 06/19/06 10:26 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by Xuxan:
PD, Can't you read? I just posted Oregon's definition of assisted suicide. They are not the same.

You cannot euthanize yourself.

A doctor/nurse/whoever cannot committ suicide for you. Only you yourself can commit suicide. A doctor can give you the tools, but not do it.
Apples and Oranges. I can read just fine, a doctor can euthanize you...cool. Then if I so chose I should be able to get a friend to help euthanize me as well, if I wanted/needed that sort of assistance.
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#41242 - 06/19/06 10:29 PM Re: Remembering Katie McCarron
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
What you fail to comprehend is that I think euthanasia and assisted suicide are one in the same and I don't care what the definition some lawmakers in Oregon suggest it means.

Call it what you will, I call it mercy killing, I call it euthanasia, and I also call it assisting someone to die.

You seem hung up on the word suicide....so what...dead is dead.
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