#41046 - 06/08/06 02:34 PM
Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
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MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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Look out KAR - your statement about Susan and TJ turned into you not caring about children being murdered 
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"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
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#41047 - 06/08/06 02:38 PM
Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
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sodapop
Member
Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 9486
Loc: new york
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Originally posted by MerryA: Look out KAR - your statement about Susan and TJ turned into you not caring about children being murdered
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#41049 - 06/08/06 02:46 PM
Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
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MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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Originally posted by Xuxan:
a severe disability is a disability that is accompanied by cognitve disability? Dowdy adn TJ have "mild CP" because what - they are smart? So you cannot be smart and be severely disabled? So that means it is more OK to want to eliminate a non-smart disabled child than a smart disabled child?
How can you be an advocate for people with disabilities and not advocate People First language? 
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
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#41050 - 06/08/06 02:47 PM
Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
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MrSoul
Member
Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
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Originally posted by MerryA:
I have been trying to discuss the issue but you keep making it personal with your pity party stories like you are the only person with childhood issues. :rolleyes:
No, you came in with your smartass comments and smilie faces :rolleyes: :p ... you rarely argue rationally with me, Merry... or rather, when I start to ask theoretical questions, you have a meltdown and start calling names, instead of simply replying (as Dan did, for example).
Originally posted by MrSoul: Back to the old Merry... why argue the actual points under discussion, when you can start insulting people personally and have some real fun, huh?  :p Originally posted by MerryA:
just don't expect me to admire your whinning about unresolved issues from your childhood.
BTW, the next time Rob, Denise or SteveGIMP talk about trouble with their PCAs, I fully expect you to criticize their "whining" (one n, not two... also, you incorrectly spelled SCISSORS earlier in the thread). Unless, of course, some people's "whining" is more acceptable to you than others, as I suspect, and you are once again totally full of shit.
Originally posted by MerryA:
The issues are/were real - your lack of dealing with them or finding appropriate assistance to deal with them is getting old.
Watch that whining, folks, Merry is going to police your complaining! Unless, of course, she has ... different standards for different people??? A FAIR and WONDERFUL LIBERAL PERSON like Merry? Nah, couldn't be.
PS: Umm, BTW, this IS me dealing with my issues, Merry.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe
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#41051 - 06/08/06 02:48 PM
Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
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KAR
Member
Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 1823
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Originally posted by MerryA: Look out KAR - your statement about Susan and TJ turned into you not caring about children being murdered
TJ,if I may,no one is saying that we don't care about the killing of children, of course that concerns us all. That is not the issue, at least not for me.
Xuxan and her gang compare what is allegedly happening to the disabled to the Holocaust,or to the Civil Rights movement. She's now claiming it is a cultural devaluation of the lives of the disabled, and not being directed by any governmental entity.
That's not what she said when referring to "Futile Care" laws in Texas and elsewhere ( it took a crowbar for her to admit that any state but Texas actually had them), she tells people who are the most vulnerable that physicians and hospitals are out to murder them, that in my opinion, is beneath comtempt.
Xuxan by her own admission, has several small disabilities, not one great big one. Her disabilities, considering her stated aversion to traditional medicine, were discovered and diagnosed by whom? Herself, her witch-doctor? her Shaman? Web-MD?
You, TJ, could do a lot better.
_________________________
"Friends come and go, enemies accumulate"
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#41052 - 06/08/06 02:55 PM
Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
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MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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Originally posted by MrSoul: BTW, the next time Rob, Denise or SteveGIMP talk about trouble with their PCAs, I fully expect you to criticize their "whining" (one n, not two... also, you incorrectly spelled SCISSORS earlier in the thread). Unless, of course, some people's "whining" is more acceptable to you than others, as I suspect, and you are once again totally full of shit.
Rob, Denise or Steve et al don't whine - they share problems, ask for advice, and vent with their friends.
You are acting like a ten year old pitching a tantrum.
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
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#41053 - 06/08/06 02:59 PM
Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
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MrSoul
Member
Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
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KAR, I tend to like Susan's posts because I ALREADY agree with much of what she says. She isn't "playing into my fears"...I already felt that way before she came to the board. You can ask Dan, who has argued a lot with me and Dowdy about these issues, long before Susan got here. Originally posted by KAR:
Xuxan and her gang compare what is allegedly happening to the disabled to the Holocaust,or to the Civil Rights movement. She's now claiming it is a cultural devaluation of the lives of the disabled, and not being directed by any governmental entity.
In historian Robert Jay Lifton's THE NAZI DOCTORS, there is a particularly disturbing
chapter about how popular entertainment had made euthanasia drama acceptable to certain elements of the German population. It progressed to isolated cases like what we see now, and then... well, nobody was too bothered when this large segment of the population just DISSAPEARED and mental institutions etc were suddenly EMPTY. I don't see that happening here, but it's good to be cautious, as it is when civil rights or civil liberties are chipped away by degrees and certain things start to become "acceptable"... when I hear language like that HERE (a gimp board ) I feel that it is necessary to reply.
Originally posted by KAR:
Xuxan by her own admission, has several small disabilities, not one great big one. Her disabilities, considering her stated aversion to traditional medicine, were discovered and diagnosed by whom? Herself, her witch-doctor? her Shaman? Web-MD?
Originally posted by KAR:
You, TJ, could do a lot better. 
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe
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#41054 - 06/08/06 03:03 PM
Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
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MrSoul
Member
Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
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Originally posted by MerryA:
You are acting like a ten year old pitching a tantrum. Originally posted by MrSoul: Back to the old Merry... why argue the actual points under discussion, when you can start insulting people personally and have some real fun, huh? :p
Otherwise, ignoring you and the predictable regression to irrational harpy screeching.
PS: Yes, that was sexist.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe
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#41056 - 06/08/06 03:08 PM
Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
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MrSoul
Member
Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
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Originally posted by Xuxan:
OK - I just read through here and I just realized something ----- a severe disability is a disability that is accompanied by cognitve disability? Dowdy adn TJ have "mild CP" because what - they are smart? So you cannot be smart and be severely disabled? So that means it is more OK to want to eliminate a non-smart disabled child than a smart disabled child?
So, I honestly don't know what they mean---?
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe
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#41057 - 06/08/06 03:11 PM
Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
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KAR
Member
Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 1823
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TJ, I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what goes on inside your head,or anyone else's for that matter.
I am AB, I care for,and have cared for my wife, who was disabled as a result of an accident 8 years ago.
She, thank God, is able to get around on her own but, she does suffer with chronic pain, depression, mood swings etc.
That being said, I just don't see any comparisons in this country today, by any agency, or group, that resembles Nazi Germnay in any way, shape, or form.
Comparisons of the conditions that exist today, to atrocities of the past, tend to lessen the horror suffered by those who actually experienced those events.
I'm not going to beat this to death but, some people swim in it, some people make careers out of it.
I'll get my truth from other sources, thank you.
_________________________
"Friends come and go, enemies accumulate"
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#41058 - 06/08/06 03:32 PM
Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
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MrSoul
Member
Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
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Originally posted by KAR:
That being said, I just don't see any comparisons in this country today, by any agency, or group, that resembles Nazi Germnay in any way, shape, or form.
Originally posted by KAR:
Comparisons of the conditions that exist today, to atrocities of the past, tend to lessen the horror suffered by those who actually experienced those events.  )
But I do feel this way about the rights of disabled people, especially the right of disabled children (sorry about the people first language or whatever it is, I am behind in my PC-ness these days) who can't articulate things well themselves, as I could not.
Originally posted by KAR:
I'll get my truth from other sources, thank you.
But as we have established here, some people can "vent" and others can't. Talking about confusion, et. al. gets you called a whiner in record time, which is what I mean when I say there is a pervasive ideology of ranking disabilities, with people who have cognitive dis (or who are born dis), at the bottom. This translates as: PCA problems = acceptable disability rights issue. Being chronically confused = whining.
I worry that this will impact which children get services, and which ones get suffocated (or beaten and locked in the basement).
I don't think it's totally unreasonable to try to bring this to the attention of other dis activists here.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe
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#41059 - 06/08/06 03:34 PM
Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
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sodapop
Member
Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 9486
Loc: new york
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Originally posted by MrSoul: Originally posted by Xuxan:
OK - I just read through here and I just realized something ----- a severe disability is a disability that is accompanied by cognitve disability? Dowdy adn TJ have "mild CP" because what - they are smart? So you cannot be smart and be severely disabled? So that means it is more OK to want to eliminate a non-smart disabled child than a smart disabled child?
So, I honestly don't know what they mean---?
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#41060 - 06/08/06 04:18 PM
Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
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joyt
Member
Registered: 04/16/01
Posts: 19345
Loc: AccessibleProperties.net
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Originally posted by sodapop: Originally posted by MrSoul: Susan, I don't understand the distinctions either... I asked both Rob and Merry several times, to define *severe* and they have refused.
So, I honestly don't know what they mean---?
Severely Disabled Adults Defined
But we have found that there is sometimes a misunderstanding of what constitutes a "severely disabled adult." The Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA) defines disability as a substantial limitation in a major life activity. This includes:
1. Using a wheelchair, a cane, crutches or a walker;
2. Difficulty performing one or more functional activities (seeing, hearing, speaking, lifting/carrying, using stairs, walking or grasping small objects);
3. Difficulty with one or more activities of daily living (getting in or out of bed or a chair, bathing, dressing, eating, toileting, getting around inside the home);
4. Difficulty with one or more instrumental activities of daily living (preparing meals, doing light housework, keeping track of money and bills, going outside the home, taking prescription medicines in the right amount at the right time and using the telephone);
5. One or more specified conditions (a learning disability, mental retardation or other developmental disability, Alzheimer's disease, or some other type of mental or emotional condition);
6. Other mental or emotional conditions that seriously interfere with everyday activities (frequently depressed or anxious, trouble getting along with others, trouble concentrating or trouble coping with day-to-day stress);
7. A condition that limits the ability to work around the house;
8. If age 16 to 67, a condition that makes it difficult to work at a job or business; or
9. Receives federal benefits based on an inability to work.
According to HUD’s definition, persons are considered to have a severe disability if they meet criteria 1, 6 or 9, or have Alzheimer's disease, or mental retardation or another developmental disability; or are unable to perform or need help to perform one or more of the activities in criteria 2, 3, 4, 7 or 8.
Agencies serving a disabled population must retain, in the client file, substantiation of the client's diagnosis of a severe disability which may include a letter from their doctor, or proof of receiving federal or County benefits based on disability.
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#41061 - 06/08/06 05:42 PM
Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
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MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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Joy, that is HUD's definition for benefits.
You will find many different definitions of disability within different programs because of criteria requirements.
Most of the advocates I know define someone who has severe disabilities generally as someone who has multiple disabilities that dramatically affect major life activities.
Three questions:
Is anyone with a substantial limitation in a major life activity "severely" disabled?
Do you consider yourself severely disabled?
Are the people who are unable to live independently, with or without appropriate supports, "more severely" disabled?
It seems to me once you get to "severely" there is not much available after it.
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
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