You are not logged in. [Log In] Newmobility.com » Forums » General Discussion » Disability Rights and Advocacy » Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
Register User       Forum List       Calendar       FAQ
Page all of 9 12345>Last »
Topic Options
#40971 - 06/03/06 06:55 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
StarlightAngel
Member


Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
Quote:
Originally posted by Xuxan:
"tired, worn out and at her wit’s end" Do we use this as an excuse to murder anyone but people with disabilities?

Quote:
Garza told Weed she was having “a lot of personal problems with her boyfriend.’’ She also told Weed she worried about her twin daughters, who will start school in the fall.

Garza said nothing to alarm Weed. But neighbors have been concerned for years because of her erratic behavior and bouts of heavy drinking.
They realized the house at 6949 W Sedate Court was trouble, but they tried to mind their own business.

Garza was arrested in 2002, accused of hitting Layton. The arrest report said she was extremely intoxicated.

Garza got probation.

Despite the many conflicts and Garza’s frequent drinking, neighbors said they couldn’t imagine her hurting her kids.

“She was crazy about them,’’ said neighbor Katie Wells, 15, who sometimes baby sitting for Garza. “She loved on them the same way you’d love on a regular kid.’’

The boys always seemed well taken-care of, Katie added. They liked to look out the window and would sometimes crawl to the door and answer it.

Krystal played music for them, and they hummed along.

“It doesn’t excuse it, but I think she must have been overwhelmed,’’ said Katie’s mom, Betty Henley. “Somebody should have seen something was going on, that the woman was tired, worn out and at her wit’s end.’’
twin disabled kids AND twin 5-year-olds? good grief, no wonder she drank. my only question was, why didn't this woman have any home assistance, with all those kids???
_________________________
"oh yeah, life goes on, long after the thrill of living it is gone."

http://www.autonomynow.org
Top
#40974 - 06/05/06 10:38 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
StarlightAngel
Member


Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
Quote:
Originally posted by Xuxan:
No services is no reason to murder your child/children.
i didn't excuse her actions. i'm just saying i can see why she flipped.
_________________________
"oh yeah, life goes on, long after the thrill of living it is gone."

http://www.autonomynow.org
Top
#40975 - 06/05/06 11:03 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by StarlightAngel:
Quote:
Originally posted by Xuxan:
No services is no reason to murder your child/children.
i didn't excuse her actions. i'm just saying i can see why she flipped.
For every post about some parent snapping and killing his/her own disabled child I can find you at least 10 more where the parent has killed his own perfectly healthy child.

This is a sad story, but not a story to be used to promote fear amongst the disabled community. It's not like it is an epidemic.

Abuse to our children is however reaching epidemic proportions, but that subject is for another thread entirely.
_________________________
Top
#40976 - 06/05/06 11:34 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
harley-lynn
Member


Registered: 09/06/05
Posts: 321
Loc: Cleveland, OHIO 		Nuts...Why didn't anyone start helping her out when got she stressed out?...People knew her past problems...It's always when something like this happens that people bring up the past and why didn't they do anything way back when and head this off?...
_________________________
Seize every second of your life and savor it...

Top
#40977 - 06/05/06 10:57 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row 		I initially wrote a long post, but edited it down to:

Of course it's okay to abuse, beat, neglect, abandon and kill disabled children. It always has been--it just makes the news more these days. (In some cultures, infanticide of "freak" children was totally acceptable.)

Why is anyone surprised?
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#40978 - 06/05/06 11:28 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
I initially wrote a long post, but edited it down to:

Of course it's okay to abuse, beat, neglect, abandon and kill disabled children. It always has been--it just makes the news more these days. (In some cultures, infanticide of "freak" children was totally acceptable.)

Why is anyone surprised?
Boo Hoo. Disabled children aren't the only ones being "abused", "beat", "neglected", "abandoned", and "killed".
_________________________
Top
#40979 - 06/05/06 11:40 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
I initially wrote a long post, but edited it down to:

Of course it's okay to abuse, beat, neglect, abandon and kill disabled children. It always has been--it just makes the news more these days. (In some cultures, infanticide of "freak" children was totally acceptable.)

Why is anyone surprised?
Boo Hoo. Disabled children aren't the only ones being "abused", "beat", "neglected", "abandoned", and "killed".
When did I say they were the "only ones"?

Sent you a PM, too.

Edited to add: Since all of those things happened to me (short of getting killed) and all of the kids I knew in group homes, I guess I assumed they happened to most of us... at least in the class of people I come from.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#40981 - 06/05/06 11:47 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by Xuxan:
But it is only disabled children whose disability is used as a rationale for the parents to murder, abuse, neglect them.
You mean by the parents themselves, or by the culture at large?
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#40983 - 06/06/06 06:20 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
corlorde
Member


Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 9246
Quote:
Originally posted by Xuxan:
But it is only disabled children whose disability is used as a rationale for the parents to murder, abuse, neglect them.
When it is the mother doing the killing, there is always a "rationale." If the sons weren't disabled and the mother killed or tried to kill them, she would be given pause using the "clinically depressed" rationale. Or "the husband is a pig and drove her to it rationale" or a host of others I have read over the past few years when mothers murder.
_________________________
Top
#40984 - 06/06/06 01:08 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America 		Sorry TJ for my testiness. Xuxan brings that out of me I guess.

I would like to point out that "women" have been killing their own children, AB and Disabled, for as long as women have been bearing children. The latest "excuse" for those women is postpartum(sp) depression. Society needs to believe that there must be something wrong with a "mother" mentally for her to do such an evil deed. They WANT to find an excuse. This has nothing to do with a disablitity issue.
_________________________
Top
#40985 - 06/06/06 02:35 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
The latest "excuse" for those women is postpartum(sp) depression. Society needs to believe that there must be something wrong with a "mother" mentally for her to do such an evil deed. They WANT to find an excuse. This has nothing to do with a disablitity issue.
I agree with all of this except that postpartum depression is real and in some cases is the reason but I think it is used as a justification many times when it should not be. Some people are just plain mean and don't care.
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#40986 - 06/06/06 10:10 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
The latest "excuse" for those women is postpartum(sp) depression. Society needs to believe that there must be something wrong with a "mother" mentally for her to do such an evil deed. They WANT to find an excuse. This has nothing to do with a disablitity issue.
I agree with all of this except that postpartum depression is real and in some cases is the reason but I think it is used as a justification many times when it should not be. Some people are just plain mean and don't care.
Sure it is real, but many women get this syndrome and do not kill their kids.
_________________________
Top
#40988 - 06/06/06 11:19 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Yes, because most women who have babies get post-partum care and the doctor recognized the clinical depression and the mother gets help. So although she still has a medical problem it is under control and being watched.

The women who murder their children are not under doctors care or have doctors who refuse to diagnose it and tell mothers they will get over it without medical support.
Sorry but that is a crock of shit. Many women don't get treated, they just get over it.

I suppose since alcoholism is a "desease" we should be able to use that as an "excuse" as well?

Too many excuses these days.
_________________________
Top
#40992 - 06/07/06 10:07 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
StarlightAngel
Member


Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Sorry but that [postpartum depression] is a crock of shit. Many women don't get treated, they just get over it.

I suppose since alcoholism is a "desease" we should be able to use that as an "excuse" as well?

Too many excuses these days.
you sound just like tom cruise.
_________________________
"oh yeah, life goes on, long after the thrill of living it is gone."

http://www.autonomynow.org
Top
#40993 - 06/07/06 10:13 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by StarlightAngel:
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Sorry but that [postpartum depression] is a crock of shit. Many women don't get treated, they just get over it.

I suppose since alcoholism is a "desease" we should be able to use that as an "excuse" as well?

Too many excuses these days.
you sound just like tom cruise.
Ouch...that hurt.

It's the truth Star. We have too many diagnosis' that allow a person to blame that "condition" rather than their actions. We have the extra Y chromosome BS that supposedly makes a male pre-disposed to violence, depression (boohoo get over it), funny how nations with the most in terms of food, shelter, clothing, etc etc, are nations with the most depressed people. Sheeesh, there a folks in third world countries who are happier than we are and they go to bed hungry at night. I think its the old, "too much time on our hands to think" syndrome. If ya had to work a 12 hour day, and 6 more when ya got home, you wouldn't have time to be depressed.

ADD, ADHD, postpartum, prepartum, alcoholism, drug addiction, blah blah blah...too many excuses, not enough accountability.
_________________________
Top
#40994 - 06/07/06 10:22 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
KAR
Member


Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 1823
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Quote:
Originally posted by StarlightAngel:
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Sorry but that [postpartum depression] is a crock of shit. Many women don't get treated, they just get over it.

I suppose since alcoholism is a "desease" we should be able to use that as an "excuse" as well?

Too many excuses these days.
you sound just like tom cruise.
Ouch...that hurt.

It's the truth Star. We have too many diagnosis' that allow a person to blame that "condition" rather than their actions. We have the extra Y chromosome BS that supposedly makes a male pre-disposed to violence, depression (boohoo get over it), funny how nations with the most in terms of food, shelter, clothing, etc etc, are nations with the most depressed people. Sheeesh, there a folks in third world countries who are happier than we are and they go to bed hungry at night. I think its the old, "too much time on our hands to think" syndrome. If ya had to work a 12 hour day, and 6 more when ya got home, you wouldn't have time to be depressed.

ADD, ADHD, postpartum, prepartum, alcoholism, drug addiction, blah blah blah...too many excuses, not enough accountability.
Careful PD, someone might confuse you with a "Compassionless Conservative",BTW you left out obesity.

Good post.

Kevin
_________________________
"Friends come and go, enemies accumulate"

Top
#40995 - 06/07/06 10:26 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America 		LOL KAR...yeah I forgot all about the obesity thing. What a cycle that is, "I'm depressed cuz I am fat, so I self medicate myself with food, I get fatter and therefore more depressed...so I eat...damn, I think I'll go out and kill a few skinny babies...but don't blame me, I'm just depressed"
_________________________
Top
#40997 - 06/07/06 05:22 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row 		Dan, what is the difference between you and me smoking a doobie to feel better, and people taking antidepressants (or whatever)?

I think the word "self-medicating" is accurate. (At this point, I consider myself more knowledgable about what I need than doctors are.)

I can't rank Michele any more for her Lexapro, if I am getting high regularly... except that I admit what I am doing and she doesn't/didn't.

Now, you don't seem to be admitting it, either. :p
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#40998 - 06/07/06 06:36 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America 		Well TJ, legit question I guess. The difference as I see it is that I never smoked weed because I was "depressed", I smoked it to heighten my already sweet disposition.

Some people drink booze because of depression, others have a drink or two simply because they like it.

I just get tired of the excuses people will use to explain their otherwise idiotic actions.

Why are most people fat? Because they eat too much and exercise to little. FACT

Why are most people depressed? I think its because they have far too much time on their hands and are simply unable to accept that life is about ups and downs and isn't easy...for anyone.

ADD/ADHD - a diagnosis helped to make parents feel better about their poor parenting skills.

The question I have in regards to the original post is:

Is this woman being charged with attempted murder? If yes, then how is that any different from any woman who attempts to kill her kids, disabled or otherwise?
_________________________
Top
#40999 - 06/07/06 07:25 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Well TJ, legit question I guess. The difference as I see it is that I never smoked weed because I was "depressed", I smoked it to heighten my already sweet disposition.
LMAO

Well, I admit I do it for pain/spasticity relief and to lighten up my umm, rather uptight disposition. :p
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41001 - 06/07/06 07:59 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America 		Show me where the kids were to blame? The blame seems to be going to her situation which most people agree was overwhelming. It's going towards a system that appears to have let her down. I'm not just talking about the social system, I am talking about her friends and family. They all seem to have been aware of her stress and anxiety. I wonder how many of them stepped up and gave her a hand?

The woman is in jail, without bail. What more do you want?
_________________________
Top
#41003 - 06/08/06 06:23 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
corlorde
Member


Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 9246
Quote:
Xuxan said:
And yet that is what is being pointed to as the cause of what she did.
There is always, "a cause" when it comes to murdering moms. Unless you are pointing to a new and disturbing trend? Do you have credible information, proof, overwhelming evidence, that defense attorneys are using disabled children (and the associated "misery" of having such) as a justification for murder (other than this one case)? Or do you have said proof that juries are lenient in assessing guilt based on the inherent fact that a disabled child may be the cause for murder?
_________________________
Top
#41004 - 06/08/06 07:52 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
sodapop
Member


Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 9486
Loc: new york 		i would kill and/or abort a kid/fetus if i knew s/he/it were gonna be severely disabled. i'd also probably never forgive my parents had they allowed me to be born or live knowing i'd have to deal w/such a shitty hand. i applaud these moms! i do have a problem w/this woman waiting fourteen years though.
_________________________
Top
#41005 - 06/08/06 10:07 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by sodapop:
i would kill and/or abort a kid/fetus if i knew s/he/it were gonna be severely disabled. i'd also probably never forgive my parents had they allowed me to be born or live knowing i'd have to deal w/such a shitty hand. i applaud these moms! i do have a problem w/this woman waiting fourteen years though.
Bold type mine.

So, Rob proves Susan's point. See? He thinks we shouldn't be here. Just like the nazis, he'd march us all into the showers with the other inferiors.

Rob, this is why I am afraid of atheists like you... you don't believe we have souls (which would give us rights and respect for that simple reason), so the only thing left for you to judge us on, is our supposed "quality of life" or lack thereof.

And of course, we are inferior, so you'd just get rid of us (or heartily applaud those who do). We don't pass inspection since we weren't born as "good" as you are, right?

Dan, I hope you will study Rob's post, next time you say Susan is making shit up... he states it flat-out: Kill us off. According to Rob, instead of merely beating me and locking me in the basement for a day or two, my stepfather should have just finished me off. I mean, it was fairly early on... nobody (except my mother, thank God) would care if some 6 yr old autistic/CP kid ended up dead in the basement from starvation and dehydration. He wouldn't eat, after all. Just kill him, don't try to feed him!

Rob, you disgust me. People like you are the problem, not the solution.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41006 - 06/08/06 10:15 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
KAR
Member


Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 1823
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Quote:
Originally posted by sodapop:
i would kill and/or abort a kid/fetus if i knew s/he/it were gonna be severely disabled. i'd also probably never forgive my parents had they allowed me to be born or live knowing i'd have to deal w/such a shitty hand. i applaud these moms! i do have a problem w/this woman waiting fourteen years though.
Bold type mine.

So, Rob proves Susan's point. See? He thinks we shouldn't be here. Just like the nazis, he'd march us all into the showers with the other inferiors.

Rob, this is why I am afraid of atheists like you... you don't believe we have souls (which would give us rights and respect for that simple reason), so the only thing left for you to judge us on, is our supposed "quality of life" or lack thereof.

And of course, we are inferior, so you'd just get rid of us (or heartily applaud those who do). We don't pass inspection since we weren't born as "good" as you are, right?

Dan, I hope you will study Rob's post, next time you say Susan is making shit up... he states it flat-out: Kill us off. According to Rob, instead of merely beating me and locking me in the basement for a day or two, my stepfather should have just finished me off. I mean, it was fairly early on... nobody (except my mother, thank God) would care if some 6 yr old autistic/CP kid ended up dead in the basement from starvation and dehydration. He wouldn't eat, after all. Just kill him, don't try to feed him!

Rob, you disgust me. People like you are the problem, not the solution.
Mr.Soul, Rob is disabled.

Xuxan's point is/was and will continue to be that the government, or at least republicans, hospitals and physicians are the masterminds of the "final solution" regarding the disabled.

Rob's staement should be taken for what it is, the statement fo one disabled individual, hardly a policy pronouncement,
_________________________
"Friends come and go, enemies accumulate"

Top
#41007 - 06/08/06 11:02 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by KAR:
Mr.Soul, Rob is disabled.
And born able-bodied, thus, in a class above me. He has been pretty clear in pointing that out, again and again, on this board. (You want the links for all of Rob's ridicule about my autism?)

Quote:
Originally posted by KAR:
Xuxan's point is/was and will continue to be that the government, or at least republicans, hospitals and physicians are the masterminds of the "final solution" regarding the disabled.
Huh? When did she say that?

She believes, as I do, that there is a pervasive ideology in this culture, that says certain children are inferior and not worthy of life. This ideology does not think killing autistic children or children with CP (and I have both) is a bad thing. Rob just echoed that sentiment and APPLAUDED it. (When was Rob a child with autism or CP?)

Quote:
Originally posted by KAR:
Rob's staement should be taken for what it is, the statement fo one disabled individual, hardly a policy pronouncement,
No, it's just proof that Susan isn't off the wall at all. Even people who are disabled themselves think children/babies born disabled are inferior.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41008 - 06/08/06 11:05 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
This ideology does not think killing autistic children or children with CP (and I have both) is a bad thing. Rob just echoed that sentiment and APPLAUDED it.
And let me add, I hold that ideology accountable for turning the cold shoulder to my own abuse as a child, showing more sympathy for my asshole stepfather, than for me.

Rob would applaud him... he just said so.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41010 - 06/08/06 11:32 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row 		What gets me, Susan, is the assumption that the kids killed are automatically inferior to the vicious individuals who killed them.

For 4 years, I had to listen to people tell my stepfather what a WONDERFUL MAN he was, for "taking me on"--when in fact, what he was doing was regularly beating the shit out of me.

And Rob is still applauding!
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41012 - 06/08/06 11:43 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
KAR
Member


Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 1823
Quote:
Originally posted by Xuxan:
Originally posted by KAR:
Xuxan's point is/was and will continue to be that the government, or at least republicans, hospitals and physicians are the masterminds of the "final solution" regarding the disabled.

I did not say this. This is not a democratic or republican issue - it pervades every segment of society. It is not a physcians/ hospitals issues as parents/siblings/children do these "heroic" deeds without any help from anyone.

A final solution is not so far off if you listen to Peter Singer, head of ethics at Princeton University. If the birth of your disabled child does not make you happy - and it is not yet 29 days old - then euthanize it. He used to say that the state should intervene and do it if the parents didn't choose to, but he has mellowed a bit and now agrees that SOME disabled children are valued by their parents and those children should not be euthanized without parental consent. (Gee thanks!!!) Now if you think this is irrelevant to us as citizens - he is also one of the Ethics advisors to the president.
Pardon me, let's try it this way. You don't trust physicians or hospitals, at least not to make decisions concerning what constitues "futile care", or end of life...do you?

You, at least it seems to me, believe that there is a movement which manefests itself in legislation aimed at making "End of Life" more compassionate...you deem these to be aimed at disabled people only,with the express purpose of allowing physicians "murder" the disabled...do you not?

Do you, or don't you, believe that there is an effort underway, by government & hospitals, to devalue the lives of those with disabilities, so that "thinning the herd" could be achieved.

Please let me know if I have mis-characterized your positions, if I have, you will have my sincere apologies.
_________________________
"Friends come and go, enemies accumulate"

Top
#41014 - 06/08/06 12:06 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
StarlightAngel
Member


Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Rob, this is why I am afraid of atheists like you... you don't believe we have souls (which would give us rights and respect for that simple reason), so the only thing left for you to judge us on, is our supposed "quality of life" or lack thereof.



Rob, you disgust me. People like you are the problem, not the solution.
umm, what does atheism have to do with the issue?
_________________________
"oh yeah, life goes on, long after the thrill of living it is gone."

http://www.autonomynow.org
Top
#41015 - 06/08/06 12:22 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
KAR
Member


Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 1823
Quote:
Originally posted by Xuxan:
ALL of this is in response to society devaluing people with disabilities - not a government plot or simply a way for hospitals to save expenses.

I'd say more- but I am off to the airport to pick up a weekend guest.
Well, I won't be polishing up on my apology skills, won't need 'em.

Have a safe flight.
_________________________
"Friends come and go, enemies accumulate"

Top
#41016 - 06/08/06 01:05 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee 		TJ - FYI - you are not severely disabled - disabled yes, but not "severely"

I understand what Rob is saying - I don't necessarily agree wtih it - but if Rob had a child born with severe disabilities I feel confident he would love and care for his child and the severe disability would not affect his unconditional love. :p
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41017 - 06/08/06 01:10 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by StarlightAngel:
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Rob, this is why I am afraid of atheists like you... you don't believe we have souls (which would give us rights and respect for that simple reason), so the only thing left for you to judge us on, is our supposed "quality of life" or lack thereof.



Rob, you disgust me. People like you are the problem, not the solution.
umm, what does atheism have to do with the issue?
I just stated what it has to do with the issue. If one does not believe we have souls and is not ALSO committed to the concept that we have equal rights before the law (and Rob doesn't think so, obviously, since he applauds these mothers who kill their disabled children), then there is nothing else to appeal to in saving our lives.

Philosophically:

1) It's wrong because God says so, or

2) It's wrong because it is a violation of human rights.

If you don't believe #1 and ALSO don't believe we deserve #2, we are shit out of luck, huh? (I think you would subscribe to #2, am I correct?)

I was very careful to say "atheists like you"--meaning Rob, and not *every* atheist. In fact, I was comparing Rob to Susan, another atheist, who clearly subscribes to #2.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41018 - 06/08/06 01:16 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee 		TJ - you draw conclusions and many of your conclusions are in error - you do tend to take things out of context and run with them. And running with the sissors you used to cut something out of context is dangerous. :p
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41019 - 06/08/06 01:20 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
TJ - FYI - you are not severely disabled - disabled yes, but not "severely"
Merry, as a child, I didn't speak for 2 years. I was called retarded. Only my "crazy" grandmother steadfastly believed I was smarter than everyone else. (She would say "I just know he is" when asked why. ) This is one reason everyone thought she was crazy.

I also know, from this experience, that you can make such children FAR WORSE. I got "better" and then "worse"--my whole life, depending on circumstances. In the stories Susan reprinted, I see the same kind of telltale fluctuations, and I wonder about the possible reasons for them. This usually means an autistic child is being unduly pressured (or abused).

I sat in the corner and rocked one year, then made straight A's the next. Sounds weird, until I describe to you the men my mother was married to, at the time. :rolleyes:

Autism and CP are static, and much depends on the economic class, environment, attitudes, opportunities, etc a kid is born into. To simply state categorically that some kid is "severely" disabled (according to whom?) just doesn't cut it with me. And of course, nobody bothers to investigate once they hear the terms AUTISM and CEREBRAL PALSY.

That's all they need to hear.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41020 - 06/08/06 01:24 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee 		But you are not and never have been severely disabled. :p
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41021 - 06/08/06 01:25 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
TJ - you draw conclusions and many of your conclusions are in error - you do tend to take things out of context and run with them. And running with the sissors you used to cut something out of context is dangerous. :p
If I am in error, go ahead and tell me in what way I am in error.

Clever put-downs and smilie faces :p are not necessary to make your points.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41022 - 06/08/06 01:26 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee 		YOu are in error to conclude that Rob was talking about you when he said "severely disabled" because you are not now nor have you ever been severely disabled. That is your error.
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41023 - 06/08/06 01:27 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
But you are not and never have been severely disabled. :p
Did you read what I said?

I WAS classified that way as a kid. If it wasn't an ACCURATE diagnosis, then they were wrong, huh?

Perhaps they were wrong about the kids they suffocated, too?

Does that matter to anyone?
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41024 - 06/08/06 01:29 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
But you are not and never have been severely disabled. :p
Did you read what I said?

I WAS classified that way as a kid. If it wasn't an ACCURATE diagnosis, then they were wrong, huh?

Perhaps they were wrong about the kids they suffocated, too?

Does that matter to anyone?
I read that you said you were diagnosed with mental retardation, autism, CP and probably more - but I did not see you write that you were diagnosed as severely disabled - you are not now nor have you ever been severely disabled.
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41025 - 06/08/06 01:30 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
YOu are in error to conclude that Rob was talking about you when he said "severely disabled" because you are not now nor have you ever been severely disabled. That is your error.
And I am asking: what is his definition? He is using the terms used about the kids in the story, since he says he "applauds" their mothers.

And who decided they were severely disabled? Was it just some experts' word for it?

Okay, then so am I, since the experts said the same about me.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41026 - 06/08/06 01:33 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
I read that you said you were diagnosed with mental retardation, autism, CP and probably more - but I did not see you write that you were diagnosed as severely disabled - you are not now nor have you ever been severely disabled.
Merry, we are the same age... the term "severely disabled" did not come into popular usage until the 70s, and I was born in 1956.

They simply said, "put him in an institution", told my mother I would never amount to anything, etc. The usual.

Why are you so fixated on the word "severely"? Since you like it so much, how about you precisely define it?

Better yet, let Rob, since he is the one who used it.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41027 - 06/08/06 01:39 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
YOu are in error to conclude that Rob was talking about you when he said "severely disabled" because you are not now nor have you ever been severely disabled. That is your error.
And I am asking: what is his definition? He is using the terms used about the kids in the story, since he says he "applauds" their mothers.

And who decided they were severely disabled? Was it just some experts' word for it?

Okay, then so am I, since the experts said the same about me.
The person who wrote the article probably decided they were "severely disabled" because he/she doesn't have clue what "severely disabled" is - just like you. :p
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41028 - 06/08/06 01:40 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America 		We are talking about today TJ, not 30-40 years ago. Today, you would not be considered as "severely disabled", at least you wouldn't be by any standards I am aware of.

Things were different "back then", thankfully we have evolved since then.

You should try not to judge society today by the standards of yesterday. Today people like you, and even people like me, are looked at as being able to be productive citizens. You sound a lot like Dowdy, he too looks to the past and his experiences in the past and suggests there has been little change. I completely disagree.
_________________________
Top
#41029 - 06/08/06 01:52 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
The person who wrote the article probably decided they were "severely disabled" because he/she doesn't have clue what "severely disabled" is - just like you. :p
So you are admitting the kids weren't severely disabled? And it's still okay with you, that they were killed by their parents?????

_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41030 - 06/08/06 01:56 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America 		I'll have to re-read this thread because I have yet to see anyone suggest it was ok to kill these non-severely-disabled kids.
_________________________
Top
#41031 - 06/08/06 01:57 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
sodapop
Member


Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 9486
Loc: new york
Quote:
And born able-bodied, thus, in a class above me. He has been pretty clear in pointing that out, again and again, on this board. (You want the links for all of Rob's ridicule about my autism?)
i was born gay; that's a huge disability, imo. there's nothing wrong w/being born gay--the problem is the manner in which a severely disabled person will be treated by society.
*i would NOT mercy kill a tj or philip 'cause your cp is mild. you both are seemingly intelligent; in fact, you frodo, are much brighter than i'll ever be. how you're considered disabled is beyond me--unless whining and not being able to play well w/others is a handicap...?
_________________________
Top
#41032 - 06/08/06 01:58 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
So you are admitting the kids weren't severely disabled? And it's still okay with you, that they were killed by their parents?????

Where the hell did you get that assumption?

I have never said it is OK for parents to kill their children - for any reason. :rolleyes:
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41033 - 06/08/06 02:00 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
We are talking about today TJ, not 30-40 years ago. Today, you would not be considered as "severely disabled", at least you wouldn't be by any standards I am aware of.
What standards? Could you be specific? Not talking or communicating? Not being able to walk? Both at once? (You realize that DID describe me at one point?)

Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Things were different "back then", thankfully we have evolved since then.

You should try not to judge society today by the standards of yesterday. Today people like you, and even people like me, are looked at as being able to be productive citizens. You sound a lot like Dowdy, he too looks to the past and his experiences in the past and suggests there has been little change. I completely disagree.
Me and Dowdy heard people talk about us as kids, and we hear what people are saying NOW (about disabled children), and we hear the similarities. We have a responsibility, as escapees from institutions, to WITNESS to what we know and what happened to us.

Some things we know:

1) EXPERTS ARE NOT GODS--they can be wrong.

2) CP and autism are greatly influenced by environment.

3) Words like "severely" need to be STRICTLY DEFINED, not thrown around indiscriminately.

If things have changed, it is in large part because of gimps like us. People have been taken aback when they see MY LEFT FOOT and discover we aren't all retards, and in many cases are even smarter than the people who have arrogantly judged us.

Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41034 - 06/08/06 02:05 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee 		And those that don't grow up and realize the past is past are doomed to live in the past. :rolleyes:
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41035 - 06/08/06 02:06 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America 		They have changed. Move on. Back in the early 1900s spinal cord injured people were left to die or euthanized, in the 60s we were placed in institutions because we were thought of as none functioning individuals with little to no ability to become productive citizens.

Times have changed, thanks in part to people like you, AND technology.

Get your head out of the past and join us all in the present because as things continue to evolve our future looks better and better each day.

You WERE a victim. Today you are not, quit thinking of yourself that way and perhaps the rest of the world will as well.
_________________________
Top
#41036 - 06/08/06 02:07 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by sodapop:
*i would NOT mercy kill a tj or philip 'cause your cp is mild. you both are seemingly intelligent; in fact, you frodo, are much brighter than i'll ever be. how you're considered disabled is beyond me--unless whining and not being able to play well w/others is a handicap...?
This is a board, Rob... a place with words, and I "do" words.

I can go days without talking to people, if left alone. At a certain point, I will stop and CAN'T talk to people; I will regress unless I make a point to have at least one conversation a day (of some type, even empty chitchat about the weather). If living with another person who talks with me a lot, I do far better. If people start yelling at me, I regress and replying is just impossible. Etc.

I don't think either Dowdy or me would consider our CP "mild". We both had all kinds of surgical tinkering, and Dowdy has major pain issues. (In that regard, I am rapidly gaining on him.) Dowdy is now in a wheelchair full time, and I probably will be in 5 years or less.

And if we are "mild"--why were both of us institutionalized as kids?
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41037 - 06/08/06 02:09 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
And those that don't grow up and realize the past is past are doomed to live in the past. :rolleyes:
I wondered when the personal attacks would start. I have to compliment you, though, you went SEVERAL POSTS this time... you are improving. C+

Later, Merry. Let me know if you ever learn to debate an issue without nastiness like "grow up" okay?
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41038 - 06/08/06 02:13 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
I don't think either Dowdy or me would consider our CP "mild".
Of course you wouldn't - you are too self-absorbed.
You function independently as an adult. You hold down a job. You have a college education. How can you possibly claim to be severely disabled? Nothing but a walking pity party. :rolleyes:
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41039 - 06/08/06 02:13 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
You WERE a victim. Today you are not, quit thinking of yourself that way and perhaps the rest of the world will as well.
Do you think the people who survived the Holocaust or Jim Crow, or the days of illegal abortions, etc... should stop thinking or talking about it?

Sorry, I am a WITNESS and will remain so.

One doesn't stop experiencing the psychological fallout of child abuse simply because you grow up. It is a lifelong task. One thing that helps me is to try to prevent it from happening to other disabled children, and arguing for their lives is one way I can try to do that.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41040 - 06/08/06 02:17 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
disabled children
People First language

"children with disabilities"
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41041 - 06/08/06 02:17 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
I don't think either Dowdy or me would consider our CP "mild".
Of course you wouldn't - you are too self-absorbed.
You function independently as an adult. You hold down a job. You have a college education. How can you possibly claim to be severely disabled? Nothing but a walking pity party. :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
I wondered when the personal attacks would start. I have to compliment you, though, you went SEVERAL POSTS this time... you are improving. C+

Later, Merry. Let me know if you ever learn to debate an issue without nastiness like "grow up" okay?
Make that a D, and dropping fast.

Back to the old Merry... why argue the actual points under discussion, when you can start insulting people personally and have some real fun, huh? :p
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41042 - 06/08/06 02:20 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
KAR
Member


Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 1823
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
You WERE a victim. Today you are not, quit thinking of yourself that way and perhaps the rest of the world will as well.
Do you think the people who survived the Holocaust or Jim Crow, or the days of illegal abortions, etc... should stop thinking or talking about it?

Sorry, I am a WITNESS and will remain so.

One doesn't stop experiencing the psychological fallout of child abuse simply because you grow up. It is a lifelong task. One thing that helps me is to try to prevent it from happening to other disabled children, and arguing for their lives is one way I can try to do that.
I can see now why Xuxan appeals to you so much, she plays into your fears, and anxieties.
You, and this is not an attack, are a fertle field indeed, for her to sow her seeds.

That, in a nutshell, is my problem with Xuxan, she plays to people's fears,real,and imagined.

Good luck to you, and I mean that sincerely.
_________________________
"Friends come and go, enemies accumulate"

Top
#41043 - 06/08/06 02:26 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Let me know if you ever learn to debate an issue without nastiness like "grow up" okay?
I have been trying to discuss the issue but you keep making it personal with your pity party stories like you are the only person with childhood issues. :rolleyes:

It is admirable that you want to advocate for children with disabilities - just don't expect me to admire your whinning about unresolved issues from your childhood. The issues are/were real - your lack of dealing with them or finding appropriate assistance to deal with them is getting old.
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41045 - 06/08/06 02:31 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by KAR:
I can see now why Xuxan appeals to you so much, she plays into your fears, and anxieties.
You, and this is not an attack, are a fertle field indeed, for her to sow her seeds.


Do you think Susan has made up all the stuff she has posted in this thread? You have not responded to any of it. Do you care about the kids who have been killed by their parents, at all? They are real people. They aren't just a product of someone's "fears".

Quote:
Originally posted by KAR:
Good luck to you, and I mean that sincerely.
Thank you.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41046 - 06/08/06 02:34 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee 		Look out KAR - your statement about Susan and TJ turned into you not caring about children being murdered
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41047 - 06/08/06 02:38 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
sodapop
Member


Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 9486
Loc: new york
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
Look out KAR - your statement about Susan and TJ turned into you not caring about children being murdered
he is semiprecious! you guys fight the unbeatable...i'm tired of swordfighting windmills. i'm out.
_________________________
Top
#41049 - 06/08/06 02:46 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Originally posted by Xuxan:
a severe disability is a disability that is accompanied by cognitve disability? Dowdy adn TJ have "mild CP" because what - they are smart? So you cannot be smart and be severely disabled? So that means it is more OK to want to eliminate a non-smart disabled child than a smart disabled child?

You are as bad a TJ about jumping to wrong conclusions. :rolleyes: The fact that TJ can and does live independently (physically, mentally, emotionally, and in every other way) kinda rules out he is "severely disabled"

How can you be an advocate for people with disabilities and not advocate People First language?
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41050 - 06/08/06 02:47 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
I have been trying to discuss the issue but you keep making it personal with your pity party stories like you are the only person with childhood issues. :rolleyes:


No, you came in with your smartass comments and smilie faces :rolleyes: :p ... you rarely argue rationally with me, Merry... or rather, when I start to ask theoretical questions, you have a meltdown and start calling names, instead of simply replying (as Dan did, for example).

Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Back to the old Merry... why argue the actual points under discussion, when you can start insulting people personally and have some real fun, huh? :p
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
just don't expect me to admire your whinning about unresolved issues from your childhood.
Okay.

BTW, the next time Rob, Denise or SteveGIMP talk about trouble with their PCAs, I fully expect you to criticize their "whining" (one n, not two... also, you incorrectly spelled SCISSORS earlier in the thread). Unless, of course, some people's "whining" is more acceptable to you than others, as I suspect, and you are once again totally full of shit.

Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
The issues are/were real - your lack of dealing with them or finding appropriate assistance to deal with them is getting old.
See above. I'll be watching!

Watch that whining, folks, Merry is going to police your complaining! Unless, of course, she has ... different standards for different people??? A FAIR and WONDERFUL LIBERAL PERSON like Merry? Nah, couldn't be.

PS: Umm, BTW, this IS me dealing with my issues, Merry.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41051 - 06/08/06 02:48 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
KAR
Member


Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 1823
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
Look out KAR - your statement about Susan and TJ turned into you not caring about children being murdered
I'm willing to give TJ the benefit of the doubt, Xuxan not.

TJ,if I may,no one is saying that we don't care about the killing of children, of course that concerns us all. That is not the issue, at least not for me.

Xuxan and her gang compare what is allegedly happening to the disabled to the Holocaust,or to the Civil Rights movement. She's now claiming it is a cultural devaluation of the lives of the disabled, and not being directed by any governmental entity.

That's not what she said when referring to "Futile Care" laws in Texas and elsewhere ( it took a crowbar for her to admit that any state but Texas actually had them), she tells people who are the most vulnerable that physicians and hospitals are out to murder them, that in my opinion, is beneath comtempt.

Xuxan by her own admission, has several small disabilities, not one great big one. Her disabilities, considering her stated aversion to traditional medicine, were discovered and diagnosed by whom? Herself, her witch-doctor? her Shaman? Web-MD?

You, TJ, could do a lot better.
_________________________
"Friends come and go, enemies accumulate"

Top
#41052 - 06/08/06 02:55 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
BTW, the next time Rob, Denise or SteveGIMP talk about trouble with their PCAs, I fully expect you to criticize their "whining" (one n, not two... also, you incorrectly spelled SCISSORS earlier in the thread). Unless, of course, some people's "whining" is more acceptable to you than others, as I suspect, and you are once again totally full of shit.
So I am the only one here that has ever told you that you whine? You repeatedly bring up personal issues from 40 years ago - that is whinning - get help or get over it. :rolleyes:

Rob, Denise or Steve et al don't whine - they share problems, ask for advice, and vent with their friends.

You are acting like a ten year old pitching a tantrum.
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41053 - 06/08/06 02:59 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row 		KAR, I tend to like Susan's posts because I ALREADY agree with much of what she says. She isn't "playing into my fears"...I already felt that way before she came to the board. You can ask Dan, who has argued a lot with me and Dowdy about these issues, long before Susan got here.
Quote:
Originally posted by KAR:

Xuxan and her gang compare what is allegedly happening to the disabled to the Holocaust,or to the Civil Rights movement. She's now claiming it is a cultural devaluation of the lives of the disabled, and not being directed by any governmental entity.
I am extremely concerned about the Assisted Suicide stuff, as she is. I am worried it is a cultural and political "tendency" (pardon Trotskyist lingo, old habits die hard) to make it acceptable to get rid of us.

In historian Robert Jay Lifton's THE NAZI DOCTORS, there is a particularly disturbing
chapter about how popular entertainment had made euthanasia drama acceptable to certain elements of the German population. It progressed to isolated cases like what we see now, and then... well, nobody was too bothered when this large segment of the population just DISSAPEARED and mental institutions etc were suddenly EMPTY. I don't see that happening here, but it's good to be cautious, as it is when civil rights or civil liberties are chipped away by degrees and certain things start to become "acceptable"... when I hear language like that HERE (a gimp board ) I feel that it is necessary to reply.

Quote:
Originally posted by KAR:
Xuxan by her own admission, has several small disabilities, not one great big one. Her disabilities, considering her stated aversion to traditional medicine, were discovered and diagnosed by whom? Herself, her witch-doctor? her Shaman? Web-MD?
I think this is off-topic. (Or if it is on-topic, don't get how, exactly.)

Quote:
Originally posted by KAR:
You, TJ, could do a lot better.
Well, I am trying to understand people's points of view. Thank you for presenting your opinion reasonably.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41054 - 06/08/06 03:03 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
You are acting like a ten year old pitching a tantrum.
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Back to the old Merry... why argue the actual points under discussion, when you can start insulting people personally and have some real fun, huh? :p
BTW, when you have anything pertinent to contribute to the topic, instead of personal attacks, let me know.

Otherwise, ignoring you and the predictable regression to irrational harpy screeching.

PS: Yes, that was sexist.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41055 - 06/08/06 03:06 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by sodapop:
he is semiprecious!
You mean like a GEM???

Wow, Rob, that is the nicest thing you have ever said to me.

But HEY... Why am I only semi-precious and not completely precious?
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41056 - 06/08/06 03:08 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by Xuxan:
OK - I just read through here and I just realized something ----- a severe disability is a disability that is accompanied by cognitve disability? Dowdy adn TJ have "mild CP" because what - they are smart? So you cannot be smart and be severely disabled? So that means it is more OK to want to eliminate a non-smart disabled child than a smart disabled child?
Susan, I don't understand the distinctions either... I asked both Rob and Merry several times, to define *severe* and they have refused.

So, I honestly don't know what they mean---?
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41057 - 06/08/06 03:11 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
KAR
Member


Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 1823 		TJ, I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what goes on inside your head,or anyone else's for that matter.

I am AB, I care for,and have cared for my wife, who was disabled as a result of an accident 8 years ago.

She, thank God, is able to get around on her own but, she does suffer with chronic pain, depression, mood swings etc.

That being said, I just don't see any comparisons in this country today, by any agency, or group, that resembles Nazi Germnay in any way, shape, or form.

Comparisons of the conditions that exist today, to atrocities of the past, tend to lessen the horror suffered by those who actually experienced those events.

I'm not going to beat this to death but, some people swim in it, some people make careers out of it.

I'll get my truth from other sources, thank you.
_________________________
"Friends come and go, enemies accumulate"

Top
#41058 - 06/08/06 03:32 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by KAR:
That being said, I just don't see any comparisons in this country today, by any agency, or group, that resembles Nazi Germnay in any way, shape, or form.
I was talking about the propaganda, not the govt.

Quote:
Originally posted by KAR:
Comparisons of the conditions that exist today, to atrocities of the past, tend to lessen the horror suffered by those who actually experienced those events.
I tend to agree, although if I may quote Barry Goldwater: Moderation in the protection of liberty is no virtue; extremism in the defense of freedom is no vice. (And I promise, you will *never* see me quote him AGAIN! )

But I do feel this way about the rights of disabled people, especially the right of disabled children (sorry about the people first language or whatever it is, I am behind in my PC-ness these days) who can't articulate things well themselves, as I could not.

Quote:
Originally posted by KAR:
I'll get my truth from other sources, thank you.
Well, sorry, but these ARE the facts of my life. My life is as valuable as anyone else's here, despite the fact that some people think I shouldn't talk about it. They discuss THEIR lives, their childhoods, etc. but if I do, I am "living in the past", etc... Fact: I am often not sure which of my "symptoms" (i.e. being taciturn, etc) are due to autism/Asperger's, and which are due to surviving abuse and institutionalization. Thus, I often can't talk about one without the other--it all gets mixed up in my mind. If it comes out as whining (at worst) or simply unimportant (at best) to you, I do apologize for that.

But as we have established here, some people can "vent" and others can't. Talking about confusion, et. al. gets you called a whiner in record time, which is what I mean when I say there is a pervasive ideology of ranking disabilities, with people who have cognitive dis (or who are born dis), at the bottom. This translates as: PCA problems = acceptable disability rights issue. Being chronically confused = whining.

I worry that this will impact which children get services, and which ones get suffocated (or beaten and locked in the basement).

I don't think it's totally unreasonable to try to bring this to the attention of other dis activists here.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41059 - 06/08/06 03:34 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
sodapop
Member


Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 9486
Loc: new york
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Quote:
Originally posted by Xuxan:
OK - I just read through here and I just realized something ----- a severe disability is a disability that is accompanied by cognitve disability? Dowdy adn TJ have "mild CP" because what - they are smart? So you cannot be smart and be severely disabled? So that means it is more OK to want to eliminate a non-smart disabled child than a smart disabled child?
Susan, I don't understand the distinctions either... I asked both Rob and Merry several times, to define *severe* and they have refused.

So, I honestly don't know what they mean---?
severely disabled is not being able to transfer oneself-- also, not being able to reason.
_________________________
Top
#41060 - 06/08/06 04:18 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
joyt
Member


Registered: 04/16/01
Posts: 19345
Loc: AccessibleProperties.net
Quote:
Originally posted by sodapop:
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Susan, I don't understand the distinctions either... I asked both Rob and Merry several times, to define *severe* and they have refused.

So, I honestly don't know what they mean---?
severely disabled is not being able to transfer oneself-- also, not being able to reason.
the united states government would disagree with u, rob.

Quote:
Severely Disabled Adults Defined

But we have found that there is sometimes a misunderstanding of what constitutes a "severely disabled adult." The Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA) defines disability as a substantial limitation in a major life activity. This includes:

1. Using a wheelchair, a cane, crutches or a walker;
2. Difficulty performing one or more functional activities (seeing, hearing, speaking, lifting/carrying, using stairs, walking or grasping small objects);
3. Difficulty with one or more activities of daily living (getting in or out of bed or a chair, bathing, dressing, eating, toileting, getting around inside the home);
4. Difficulty with one or more instrumental activities of daily living (preparing meals, doing light housework, keeping track of money and bills, going outside the home, taking prescription medicines in the right amount at the right time and using the telephone);
5. One or more specified conditions (a learning disability, mental retardation or other developmental disability, Alzheimer's disease, or some other type of mental or emotional condition);
6. Other mental or emotional conditions that seriously interfere with everyday activities (frequently depressed or anxious, trouble getting along with others, trouble concentrating or trouble coping with day-to-day stress);
7. A condition that limits the ability to work around the house;
8. If age 16 to 67, a condition that makes it difficult to work at a job or business; or
9. Receives federal benefits based on an inability to work.

According to HUD’s definition, persons are considered to have a severe disability if they meet criteria 1, 6 or 9, or have Alzheimer's disease, or mental retardation or another developmental disability; or are unable to perform or need help to perform one or more of the activities in criteria 2, 3, 4, 7 or 8.

Agencies serving a disabled population must retain, in the client file, substantiation of the client's diagnosis of a severe disability which may include a letter from their doctor, or proof of receiving federal or County benefits based on disability.
http://www.ccreach.org/cdbg/Severely%20Disabled%20Adults%20Defined.doc
Top
#41061 - 06/08/06 05:42 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee 		Joy, that is HUD's definition for benefits.

You will find many different definitions of disability within different programs because of criteria requirements.

Most of the advocates I know define someone who has severe disabilities generally as someone who has multiple disabilities that dramatically affect major life activities.

Three questions:

Is anyone with a substantial limitation in a major life activity "severely" disabled?

Do you consider yourself severely disabled?

Are the people who are unable to live independently, with or without appropriate supports, "more severely" disabled?

It seems to me once you get to "severely" there is not much available after it.
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41062 - 06/08/06 05:51 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
Johnboy 64
Member


Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 15944
Loc: a nice place 		you can read in the news almost if not daily about children being abused, killed, etc at the hands of their parents...the children being dis is not relevant...i mo.
mrsoul my younger bro(ADOPTED) was beaten, abanded and he isnot dis,,
_________________________
[IMG]http://justmypics.4t.com/johncowboy.jpg[IMG]

Top
#41063 - 06/08/06 06:20 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
SteveGIMP
Member


Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 7672
Loc: The Great Lakes State 		Can't we all just get along?
Top
#41064 - 06/08/06 06:35 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America 		In Alberta people with "severe" disabilities are entitled to AISH (Assured Income for the Severley Disabled), paraplegics and lower level quads do not qualify unless they have a secondary illness. I myself qualified for one years worth of benefits because of a pressure sore issue, once that cleared up, so did my benefits.

Again TJ. You were victimized, you are no longer a victim, unless of course you chose to be.
_________________________
Top
#41065 - 06/08/06 06:36 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by SteveGIMP:
Can't we all just get along?
Quote:
Originally posted by SteveGIMP:
Quote:
Topic: you happy now, steveGIMP?
No, I'm not happy. I had a "history and physical" appointment today in preparation for surgery in a couple weeks. Basically, that means we drove over an hour each way so I could "take a deep breath", intial page one, sign my name on page two, and pay $3 for a 4 ounce bottle of the surgeon's favorite antibacterial soap. Gas and lunch for the adventure cost me $45. I'm exhausted, my ankles are swollen and sore, and my ass is killing me. And I'm wondering if I'm ever going to be comforable in my chair again.

So, no Rob. I'm not happy. I'm grumpy. Thanks for asking though.
Steve, please stop whining. Your problems are NOT the subject of this thread. You are self-absorbed. You need to learn to let these things go. GET OVER YOURSELF. GROW UP. You are a non-walking pity party! How many years have you been a gimp now? And you are still bitching about it? Be careful, or Merry will be all over your ass about whining, you whiner!

Oooopss. Forgot. Merry likes you, so it's okay. Once again, I forgot the Merry rules: If Merry likes you, then you are "venting"... but if Merry hates you, then you are "whining". Even if you are... off-topic!

Never mind, forget I said anything. Go ahead and whine, I mean, vent, to your heart's content. Merry won't say a single negative word to you, and in fact, will say POOR STEVE and wrinkle her nose sympathetically.

Finally figuring out the Merry rules
TJ
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41066 - 06/08/06 06:40 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
You WERE a victim. Today you are not, quit thinking of yourself that way and perhaps the rest of the world will as well.
Do you think the people who survived the Holocaust or Jim Crow, or the days of illegal abortions, etc... should stop thinking or talking about it?

Sorry, I am a WITNESS and will remain so.

One doesn't stop experiencing the psychological fallout of child abuse simply because you grow up. It is a lifelong task. One thing that helps me is to try to prevent it from happening to other disabled children, and arguing for their lives is one way I can try to do that.
I was spanked as a child...severely. I grew up, I got over it.

Lots of people go through a trauma growing up, they move on, they grow up, they realize that what happened to them while they grew up help form the person that they are, they also realize that who they become is now up to them.

I suppose you think that a person who abuses his kids today because he himself was abused as a child can point out that abuse of his youth and use it to excuse (or justify) his actions today.

You were a victim, you are not being victimized now.
_________________________
Top
#41067 - 06/08/06 06:41 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Again TJ. You were victimized, you are no longer a victim, unless of course you chose to be.
Yes, I was victimized by Merry, but I am no longer Merry's victim and I choose NOT to be! FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST... :p

~~

Now, on to far more important matters: Dan, do you folks still have access to hashish in Canada? Nobody here has hash anymore; wondered if that was a global or a local thing? PM me if you want. (Links to articles on the subject welcome!)
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41068 - 06/08/06 06:42 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Quote:
Originally posted by SteveGIMP:
Can't we all just get along?
Quote:
Originally posted by SteveGIMP:
Quote:
Topic: you happy now, steveGIMP?
No, I'm not happy. I had a "history and physical" appointment today in preparation for surgery in a couple weeks. Basically, that means we drove over an hour each way so I could "take a deep breath", intial page one, sign my name on page two, and pay $3 for a 4 ounce bottle of the surgeon's favorite antibacterial soap. Gas and lunch for the adventure cost me $45. I'm exhausted, my ankles are swollen and sore, and my ass is killing me. And I'm wondering if I'm ever going to be comforable in my chair again.

So, no Rob. I'm not happy. I'm grumpy. Thanks for asking though.
Steve, please stop whining. Your problems are NOT the subject of this thread. You are self-absorbed. You need to learn to let these things go. GET OVER YOURSELF. GROW UP. You are a non-walking pity party! How many years have you been a gimp now? And you are still bitching about it? Be careful, or Merry will be all over your ass about whining, you whiner!

Oooopss. Forgot. Merry likes you, so it's okay. Once again, I forgot the Merry rules: If Merry likes you, then you are "venting"... but if Merry hates you, then you are "whining". Even if you are... off-topic!

Never mind, forget I said anything. Go ahead and whine, I mean, vent, to your heart's content. Merry won't say a single negative word to you, and in fact, will say POOR STEVE and wrinkle her nose sympathetically.

Finally figuring out the Merry rules
TJ
Steve is "venting/whining" about something that is going on at this very moment. If Steve was "venting/whining" about all those things that he went through 40 years ago...I'd call him a whiner, and a professional victim.
_________________________
Top
#41069 - 06/08/06 06:46 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Again TJ. You were victimized, you are no longer a victim, unless of course you chose to be.
Yes, I was victimized by Merry, but I am no longer Merry's victim and I choose NOT to be! FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST... :p

~~

Now, on to far more important matters: Dan, do you folks still have access to hashish in Canada? Nobody here has hash anymore; wondered if that was a global or a local thing? PM me if you want. (Links to articles on the subject welcome!)
Ahhhh...now on to the real problems of the world.

I've notice a steady decline of "real" hashish, we don't get that black puddy stuff or the sandstone like hashish from the ME any longer.

I have seen a lot of homemade hashish and oils tho, the resinous pot that is grown here in British Columbia is perfect for making "honey oil" and I've seen some homemade hash as well.

I honestly think the reason for this is that when it comes to pot and pot derived substances, we are not getting any from overseas these days. The poor folks in the southern states are stuck smoking that Mexican dirt pot (which for the life of me I don't understand), and those of us living farther north have the luxury of smoking some of the best damn weed in the world. British Columbia's second most lucractive export is...Marijuana.
_________________________
Top
#41070 - 06/08/06 06:48 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
I was spanked as a child...severely. I grew up, I got over it.
I'm talking about far more than "spanking severely", Dan.

And I only talk about this, on these kinds of threads. I never discuss it IRL except with my therapist and Mrs Soul, and rarely even then.

Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Lots of people go through a trauma growing up, they move on, they grow up, they realize that what happened to them while they grew up help form the person that they are, they also realize that who they become is now up to them.
I am aware of this, but talking about preventing the abuse of disabled children now, which does continue.

Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
I suppose you think that a person who abuses his kids today because he himself was abused as a child can point out that abuse of his youth and use it to excuse (or justify) his actions today.
Not my opinion at all. Come on, you know me better than that. (How do you think I got to be such a nonviolent peacenik and won't even eat meat?)

Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
You were a victim, you are not being victimized now.
Only by Merry.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41071 - 06/08/06 06:49 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
SteveGIMP
Member


Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 7672
Loc: The Great Lakes State 		LOL Hook. Line. Sinker.
Top
#41072 - 06/08/06 06:50 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by SteveGIMP:
LOL Hook. Line. Sinker.
Heh...don't you have a singalong to organize?
_________________________
Top
#41073 - 06/08/06 06:51 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
I was spanked as a child...severely. I grew up, I got over it.
I'm talking about far more than "spanking severely", Dan.

And I only talk about this, on these kinds of threads. I never discuss it IRL except with my therapist and Mrs Soul, and rarely even then.

Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Lots of people go through a trauma growing up, they move on, they grow up, they realize that what happened to them while they grew up help form the person that they are, they also realize that who they become is now up to them.
I am aware of this, but talking about preventing the abuse of disabled children now, which does continue.

Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
I suppose you think that a person who abuses his kids today because he himself was abused as a child can point out that abuse of his youth and use it to excuse (or justify) his actions today.
Not my opinion at all. Come on, you know me better than that. (How do you think I got to be such a nonviolent peacenik and won't even eat meat?)

Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
You were a victim, you are not being victimized now.
Only by Merry.
"As long as you live in the past, the past shall live in you"

Dan Bauer
2006
_________________________
Top
#41074 - 06/08/06 06:54 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by SteveGIMP:
LOL Hook. Line. Sinker.
OMG...don't tell me you intentionally set up TJ to poke fun at him? Why are you so ruthless in your attacks on my friend and collegue TJ? This is like a 7th grade Biatch fest.
_________________________
Top
#41075 - 06/08/06 06:56 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
joyt
Member


Registered: 04/16/01
Posts: 19345
Loc: AccessibleProperties.net
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
Joy, that is HUD's definition for benefits.

You will find many different definitions of disability within different programs because of criteria requirements.

Most of the advocates I know define someone who has severe disabilities generally as someone who has multiple disabilities that dramatically affect major life activities.

Three questions:

Is anyone with a substantial limitation in a major life activity "severely" disabled?

Do you consider yourself severely disabled?

Are the people who are unable to live independently, with or without appropriate supports, "more severely" disabled?

It seems to me once you get to "severely" there is not much available after it.
why, right u are, merrya - it's HUD's definition for benefits! did i not post the source? i just had this feeling that u might reply to me.

do any of those advocates that u know have a reference for their definitions?

Quote:
someone who has severe disabilities generally as someone who has multiple disabilities that dramatically affect major life activities.

Three questions:

Is anyone with a substantial limitation in a major life activity "severely" disabled?

Do you consider yourself severely disabled?

Are the people who are unable to live independently, with or without appropriate supports, "more severely" disabled?
maybe when mr soul asked u (several times) earlier to define to define *severe,* u could have provided him your valuable insight and not ignored him.

thanks!
Top
#41076 - 06/08/06 06:56 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Steve is "venting/whining" about something that is going on at this very moment. If Steve was "venting/whining" about all those things that he went through 40 years ago...I'd call him a whiner, and a professional victim.
But his injury was a long time ago. The
*disability* is the thing going on right now, and he is venting about that. Likewise, things are happening to me right now (physically), as a direct result of what happened then. At this very moment.

I am beginning to think most of you are not aware of what actual child abuse is. You think I am talking about getting the belt and being sent to bed without my supper. Hardly.

Let's just forget it, then. It's like I'm speaking another language.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41077 - 06/08/06 06:59 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by joyt:
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
Joy, that is HUD's definition for benefits.

You will find many different definitions of disability within different programs because of criteria requirements.

Most of the advocates I know define someone who has severe disabilities generally as someone who has multiple disabilities that dramatically affect major life activities.

Three questions:

Is anyone with a substantial limitation in a major life activity "severely" disabled?

Do you consider yourself severely disabled?

Are the people who are unable to live independently, with or without appropriate supports, "more severely" disabled?

It seems to me once you get to "severely" there is not much available after it.
why, right u are, merrya - it's HUD's definition for benefits! did i not post the source? i just had this feeling that u might reply to me.

do any of those advocates that u know have a reference for their definitions?

Quote:
someone who has severe disabilities generally as someone who has multiple disabilities that dramatically affect major life activities.

Three questions:

Is anyone with a substantial limitation in a major life activity "severely" disabled?

Do you consider yourself severely disabled?

Are the people who are unable to live independently, with or without appropriate supports, "more severely" disabled?
maybe when mr soul asked u (several times) earlier to define to define *severe,* u could have provided him your valuable insight and not ignored him.

thanks!
Yeah and perhaps when I asked you several times to back up your assertions that I was indeed Brutallyhonestly you would have backed them up instead of ignoring them.
_________________________
Top
#41078 - 06/08/06 07:00 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Steve is "venting/whining" about something that is going on at this very moment. If Steve was "venting/whining" about all those things that he went through 40 years ago...I'd call him a whiner, and a professional victim.
But his injury was a long time ago. The
*disability* is the thing going on right now, and he is venting about that. Likewise, things are happening to me right now (physically), as a direct result of what happened then. At this very moment.

I am beginning to think most of you are not aware of what actual child abuse is. You think I am talking about getting the belt and being sent to bed without my supper. Hardly.

Let's just forget it, then. It's like I'm speaking another language.
Are you still getting beat on today? I would hope not. Steve is feeling physical pain today. Another issue entirely.
_________________________
Top
#41079 - 06/08/06 07:01 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America 		Oh and I commented on your hashish question...it got buried on the other page.
_________________________
Top
#41080 - 06/08/06 07:01 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row 		We are getting ZIP hash, Dan. Like ZERO. I miss that black hash, too.
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
I honestly think the reason for this is that when it comes to pot and pot derived substances, we are not getting any from overseas these days. The poor folks in the southern states are stuck smoking that Mexican dirt pot (which for the life of me I don't understand), and those of us living farther north have the luxury of smoking some of the best damn weed in the world. British Columbia's second most lucractive export is...Marijuana.
Well, finally got some, and have to agree with you! Still, it is damn pricey, so I mix it with the Mexican roadweed.

Thus, I keep three categories now, the cheap roadweed, the half-breed mixed pot and good BC bud.

You don't ever smoke the cheap? You lucky bastard! :p
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41081 - 06/08/06 07:01 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Originally posted by joyt:
maybe when mr soul asked u (several times) earlier to define to define *severe,*
I did. You probably missed it because of his temper tantrum. :p
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41082 - 06/08/06 07:03 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America 		I haven't smoked anything other than BC Bud and personally grown hydroponics since the mid 90s TJ. I actually think it is illegal to import Mexican Brown, not made illegal by the government, illegal by pot smokers everywhere.
_________________________
Top
#41083 - 06/08/06 07:08 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
SteveGIMP
Member


Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 7672
Loc: The Great Lakes State
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Quote:
Originally posted by SteveGIMP:
LOL Hook. Line. Sinker.
OMG...don't tell me you intentionally set up TJ to poke fun at him? Why are you so ruthless in your attacks on my friend and collegue TJ? This is like a 7th grade Biatch fest.
Not at all. But as I was typing my response in the other thread (which directed a question to me, so I WAS the subject and my response wasn't off topic), I had a pretty good expectation about what would happen.
Top
#41084 - 06/08/06 07:12 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Steve is feeling physical pain today. Another issue entirely.
I am still dealing with physical pain from those old injuries, yes. As I get older, gets worse, as everything else does.

However, more than anything else, not being able to eat is the major issue. (One major reason I started smoking again.)
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Quote:
Originally posted by SteveGIMP:
LOL Hook. Line. Sinker.
OMG...don't tell me you intentionally set up TJ to poke fun at him? Why are you so ruthless in your attacks on my friend and collegue TJ? This is like a 7th grade Biatch fest.
Isn't he just so cute? I am about to turn gay for him.

No wonder Merry can't keep her pants zipped while she types her starry-eyed "right-ons!" to everything he says.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41085 - 06/08/06 07:14 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by SteveGIMP:
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
Quote:
Originally posted by SteveGIMP:
LOL Hook. Line. Sinker.
OMG...don't tell me you intentionally set up TJ to poke fun at him? Why are you so ruthless in your attacks on my friend and collegue TJ? This is like a 7th grade Biatch fest.
Not at all. But as I was typing my response in the other thread (which directed a question to me, so I WAS the subject and my response wasn't off topic), I had a pretty good expectation about what would happen.
And you had to scurry over here to make sure everyone knew it? Heh...all's fair eh.
_________________________
Top
#41086 - 06/08/06 07:21 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
joyt
Member


Registered: 04/16/01
Posts: 19345
Loc: AccessibleProperties.net
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
Quote:
Originally posted by joyt:
maybe when mr soul asked u (several times) earlier to define to define *severe,*
I did. You probably missed it because of his temper tantrum.
why, thank u for finally replying to mr soul!

i don't recall using asterisks, btw.
Top
#41087 - 06/08/06 07:21 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
SteveGIMP
Member


Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 7672
Loc: The Great Lakes State 		I didn't scurry here. I was quoted here.

Anyway, I'm too tired to get involved in this whole flame-fest... which has had some pretty nasty crap from numerous parties. And I'm trying to elevate myself.

Now, where did I put Merry's phone number...
Top
#41088 - 06/08/06 07:29 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Originally posted by joyt:
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
Quote:
Originally posted by joyt:
maybe when mr soul asked u (several times) earlier to define to define *severe,*
I did. You probably missed it because of his temper tantrum.
why, thank u for finally replying to mr soul!

i don't recall using asterisks, btw.
Go back and read joyless - I replied with my definition twice prior to your post. I quoted you directly. :rolleyes:
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41089 - 06/08/06 07:30 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by SteveGIMP:
Now, where did I put Merry's phone number...
Don't forget to share the webcam photos. We WERE friends once, Steve.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41090 - 06/08/06 07:36 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
No wonder Merry can't keep her pants zipped while she types her starry-eyed "right-ons!" to everything he says.
Except for being a boldfaced lie - because I don't say "right on," I don't have zippered pants and my starry-eyes are reserved for my hubby - I do think highly of Steve.

Hi Steve.

And I think highly of Dan.

TJ is not constrained by the truth in his postings so it is often difficult to think highly of him.
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41091 - 06/08/06 07:43 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
joyt
Member


Registered: 04/16/01
Posts: 19345
Loc: AccessibleProperties.net
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
Quote:
Originally posted by joyt:
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
quote:
Originally posted by joyt:
maybe when mr soul asked u (several times) earlier to define to define *severe,*
I did. You probably missed it because of his temper tantrum.
why, thank u for finally replying to mr soul!

i don't recall using asterisks, btw.
Go back and read joyless - I replied with my definition twice prior to your post. I quoted you directly. :rolleyes:
how could u possibly quote me directly twice prior to my initial post? in any case, aren't those the definitions of "advocates u know"? it's not really "your" definition, is it? LOLOL
Top
#41092 - 06/08/06 07:46 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
SteveGIMP
Member


Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 7672
Loc: The Great Lakes State
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:

Hi Steve.
Hi Merry. Hey, you should join Kim's forum. It's a hoot.
Top
#41093 - 06/08/06 07:57 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
No wonder Merry can't keep her pants zipped while she types her starry-eyed "right-ons!" to everything he says.
Except for being a boldfaced lie - because I don't say "right on," I don't have zippered pants and my starry-eyes are reserved for my hubby - I do think highly of Steve.
Nothing but good-ole stretchy elastic pants for you, huh?

Do I detect a note of anti-sex prudery? Uh-oh. Mary Poppins, call your office.

(Don't be so literal-minded! :rolleyes: "Right on!" was basically just a shorthand summary of the vast majority of your posts in the political forum for the past couple of years.)

Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
Hi Steve.

And I think highly of Dan.
How does she love you? Let me count the cagey ways: the fluttery protestations that she is married, and yet, simultaneously, the cutesy come-hither winks.

(BTW, webcam, Dan and Steve, don't forget!)

Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
TJ is not constrained by the truth in his postings so it is often difficult to think highly of him.
That's quite all right. I'd be upset if you did.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41094 - 06/08/06 08:05 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
joyt
Member


Registered: 04/16/01
Posts: 19345
Loc: AccessibleProperties.net
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
No wonder Merry can't keep her pants zipped while she types her starry-eyed "right-ons!" to everything he says.
well, now i know why she used asterisks instead of quotation marks when quoting me, mr soul.

Quote:
*severe,*
LOL
Top
#41095 - 06/08/06 08:12 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee 		TJ - out of curiosity, since your wife is a devo, is that why you are so insistent that you are severely disabled? If you didn't play the victim, are you afraid she would leave?
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41096 - 06/08/06 08:15 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
sodapop
Member


Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 9486
Loc: new york
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
TJ - out of curiosity, since your wife is a devo, is that why you are so insistent that you are severely disabled? If you didn't play the victim, are you afraid she would leave?
she's a frigging saint! run mrs frodo! RUN!
_________________________
Top
#41097 - 06/08/06 08:15 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
TJ - out of curiosity, since your wife is a devo, is that why you are so insistent that you are severely disabled? If you didn't play the victim, are you afraid she would leave?
Well, it doesn't make much difference to her, if that's what you're asking.

Her first husband was more disabled than I am, and she left him, after all.

PS: How about your husband? Does it make a lot of difference to him how disabled you are? (I mean, I realize that no two devos are alike.)
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41098 - 06/08/06 08:18 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by sodapop:
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
TJ - out of curiosity, since your wife is a devo, is that why you are so insistent that you are severely disabled? If you didn't play the victim, are you afraid she would leave?
she's a frigging saint! run mrs frodo! RUN!
Rob, where have you been while your mom has been here defending you? Assumed you were passed out on Oxys.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41099 - 06/08/06 08:28 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Well, it doesn't make much difference to her, if that's what you're asking.

Her first husband was more disabled than I am, and she left him, after all.

PS: How about your husband? Does it make a lot of difference to him how disabled you are? (I mean, I realize that no two devos are alike.)
Just as I thought - it does make a difference to her - the thing you hate most about yourself is the reason she is with your sorry ass. She left you once before too, didn't she? Wonder why? Are you as needy with her as you are here?

Sorry frodo, my hubby is not a devo as much as your wrecked ego wants to believe it. No ex's with dis's in his history - he wanted a woman and that is what he got. :p
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41100 - 06/08/06 08:38 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Well, it doesn't make much difference to her, if that's what you're asking.

Her first husband was more disabled than I am, and she left him, after all.

PS: How about your husband? Does it make a lot of difference to him how disabled you are? (I mean, I realize that no two devos are alike.)
Just as I thought - it does make a difference to her - the thing you hate most about yourself is the reason she is with your sorry ass.
Huh?

I don't think you are aware of "the thing I hate most about myself"--as psychic as apparently you believe yourself to be. LOL

Whatever.

Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
She left you once before too, didn't she? Wonder why?
My OCD was driving her insane. Now, come on, Merry, I posted here AT LENGTH about that. :rolleyes:

You're just being a MEANIE now.

Pot has really taken the edge off my OCD, too... they need to do some research on that, I think.

Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
Are you as needy with her as you are here?
I just asked her, and she says "On and off."

Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
Sorry frodo, my hubby is not a devo as much as your wrecked ego wants to believe it.
My wrecked ego? YOUR wrecked ego is putting on quite a show here... but anyway...Merry, you grossly overestimate your importance to me, and probably to your husband, too.

Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
[No ex's with dis's in his history - he wanted a woman and that is what he got. :p
That's nice, Merry, I'm glad you are happy. We all deserve it.

Miami ahead by 3.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41101 - 06/08/06 08:49 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
Johnboy 64
Member


Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 15944
Loc: a nice place 		let go of my ego keep it up and the trolls will b here to join in

i know rob, never end a sentence with a prep...
_________________________
[IMG]http://justmypics.4t.com/johncowboy.jpg[IMG]

Top
#41102 - 06/08/06 08:50 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
My OCD was driving her insane. Now, come on, Merry, I posted here AT LENGTH about that. :rolleyes:
Excuse me - I didn't realize all your posts were required reading. :p Do I fail your class professor frodo because I don't pant on every word you copy and paste? So now that you smoke dope you are tolerable? She must be seriously in devo with you.
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41103 - 06/08/06 08:51 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
Quote:
Originally posted by Johnboy 64:
let go of my ego keep it up and the trolls will b here to join in

i know rob, never end a sentence with a prep...
:D I ain't skert of no trolls - except at night So good night JB.
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41104 - 06/08/06 08:57 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
joyt
Member


Registered: 04/16/01
Posts: 19345
Loc: AccessibleProperties.net
Quote:
Originally posted by Johnboy 64:
keep it up and the trolls will b here to join in
maybe "pip" will post, since merrya posted as "pip" for awhile.
Top
#41105 - 06/08/06 09:01 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by joyt:
Quote:
Originally posted by Johnboy 64:
keep it up and the trolls will b here to join in
maybe "pip" will post, since merrya posted as "pip" for awhile.
Maybe TruthBTold will pop up and place you back in the shallow end of this pool we call NM. Where is FrickFrackClickClack when ya need her? Chester!! Let her come out and play!
_________________________
Top
#41106 - 06/08/06 09:56 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
TJ - out of curiosity, since your wife is a devo, is that why you are so insistent that you are severely disabled? If you didn't play the victim, are you afraid she would leave?
~~ Announcement ~~

Merry, do you realize what you've done?

You've let everyone know that your word isn't worth anything, and that if they confide anything to you privately, you might get pissed and decide to post it. Despite your promises to keep it private.

Wanda, beware. Observe.

Really shitty behavior Merry. You've shown your ass. Let everyone here see you for yourself.

I've never done that, but you have.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41107 - 06/08/06 10:16 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
misanthropology
Member


Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 59 		Oh no. TJ is the victim again. What a surprise. Does anyone have a violin handy?

Ain't it funny how TJ pokes and prods a fight out of people so he can turn around and cry foul?
I don't get it. Must be a retard thing.
Top
#41109 - 06/08/06 10:34 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by misanthropology:

I don't get it. Must be a retard thing.


Well, Miss Anthropology, you either believe some things really are unethical (such as divulging confidences), or you don't. If you think divulging private info on a board, after promising to keep it private, is no big deal (or is okay if you are pissed off enough), you are certainly entitled to that opinion. However, I'm willing to bet most people here don't particularly approve of that kinda thing. And further: they may have reason to worry that the same thing will happen to them.

I think a heads-up to them is in order. I would be remiss if I didn't.

Dallas by 6
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41110 - 06/08/06 10:35 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
misanthropology
Member


Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally posted by Xuxan:
When a person is abused as a child it is rare that that the repercussions of that abuse end in childhood. You can't just "walk" away from the feelings of worthlessness that have been ingrained into you as you grow. You can't just walk away from the the physical changes your body has gone thru from being abused. TJ is a survivor and th e fact he is able to deal with NM at all speaks very well for his ability to move past what eh experienced as a child.
Survivor = catch phrase for whiney touchy feely people.
Upper level quads who haven't rolled themselves off a cliff are the tough ones. Not some gender confused p*ssy like TJ.
Top
#41111 - 06/08/06 10:37 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
misanthropology
Member


Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Quote:
Originally posted by misanthropology:

I don't get it. Must be a retard thing.


Well, Miss Anthropology, you either believe some things really are unethical (such as divulging confidences), or you don't. If you think divulging private info on a board, after promising to keep it private, is no big deal (or is okay if you are pissed off enough), you are certainly entitled to that opinion. However, I'm willing to bet most people here don't particularly approve of that kinda thing. And further: they may have reason to worry that the same thing will happen to them.

I think a heads-up to them is in order. I would be remiss if I didn't.

Dallas by 6
You run around the playground calling people names then run to tell teacher when someone kicks your butt.
Read closely::::::::::::::

PLAY WITH FIRE = GET BURNED
Top
#41112 - 06/08/06 10:40 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by misanthropology:
Survivor = catch phrase for whiney touchy feely people.
Upper level quads who haven't rolled themselves off a cliff are the tough ones. Not some gender confused p*ssy like TJ.
What are you talking about now? Are you Merry?
(Is anyone else able to follow this, and why this person has suddenly appeared in this thread?)

Gender confused? You calling me queer, now? Is this because 1) my wife is a devo or 2) I posted about strap-ons?

Damn, this is a sexually uptight board. Lighten up, people, okay? God made sex for us to have FUN.

Dallas by 3
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41113 - 06/08/06 10:48 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row 		I guess you ARE Merry.
Quote:
Originally posted by misanthropology:
You run around the playground calling people names then run to tell teacher when someone kicks your butt.
Teacher? Where is the teacher? There is a teacher here? You mean Ghoti?

More gibberish.

Quote:
Originally posted by misanthropology:
Read closely::::::::::::::
Why all the colons? Is this some postmodern literary device?

Quote:
Originally posted by misanthropology:
PLAY WITH FIRE = GET BURNED
Sorry to hear that. Be more careful next time. As for me, I feel fine, I am having a good time watching the playoffs and eating pecan sandies.

If you call Merry revealing herself as someone who can't be trusted with private info, "kicking butt"--well, I guess we have different value systems. Obviously, you are far more macho than I am, Miss... I mean, you just called me queer in your last post.

Mavericks by 7
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41114 - 06/08/06 10:57 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
misanthropology
Member


Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
I guess you ARE Merry.
Quote:
Originally posted by misanthropology:
You run around the playground calling people names then run to tell teacher when someone kicks your butt.
Teacher? Where is the teacher? There is a teacher here? You mean Ghoti?

More gibberish.

Quote:
Originally posted by misanthropology:
Read closely::::::::::::::
Why all the colons? Is this some postmodern literary device?

Quote:
Originally posted by misanthropology:
PLAY WITH FIRE = GET BURNED
Sorry to hear that. Be more careful next time. As for me, I feel fine, I am having a good time watching the playoffs and eating pecan sandies.

If you call Merry revealing herself as someone who can't be trusted with private info, "kicking butt"--well, I guess we have different value systems. Obviously, you are far more macho than I am, Miss... I mean, you just called me queer in your last post.

Mavericks by 7
Whatever. Freak.
Top
#41115 - 06/08/06 11:10 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by misanthropology:
Freak.
Which one was your favorite?

I always like Phineas Freak the best, but most people seemed to prefer Freddie Freak.

_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41116 - 06/09/06 09:17 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by MrSoul:
Quote:
Originally posted by misanthropology:

I don't get it. Must be a retard thing.


Well, Miss Anthropology, you either believe some things really are unethical (such as divulging confidences), or you don't. If you think divulging private info on a board, after promising to keep it private, is no big deal (or is okay if you are pissed off enough), you are certainly entitled to that opinion. However, I'm willing to bet most people here don't particularly approve of that kinda thing. And further: they may have reason to worry that the same thing will happen to them.

I think a heads-up to them is in order. I would be remiss if I didn't.

Dallas by 6
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

btw TJ, I don't need any "heads up", I am very much aware that once a person starts typing something here or in a PM that the odds are it will no longer be private.
_________________________
Top
#41117 - 06/09/06 09:24 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row 		You quoting the Bible at me, Dan?

Yeah, I just mentioned you in my post. Stay tuned.

Did you guys get the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers (see above) comix in Canada? They were funny as hell.

PS: Check your PMs.
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41118 - 06/09/06 10:22 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MerryA
Member


Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee 		It seems I have developed a few new personalities overnight. I wish I had the energy to be three people.

TJ - more drugs or less - what are you talking about? What did you confide to me privately that you think I have shared? :rolleyes:

You just making crap up as you go, like you usually do. :rolleyes:
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

Top
#41119 - 06/09/06 11:58 AM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
john55555
Member


Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 531
Loc: "'cross the alley from the Ala... 		Felt compelled to pop in and say thanks for the "Furry Freak Brothers" Cover!!

Lots of memories from those daze! Indeed, some of the best of my life.

I'm a strong believer in karma to get on topic a bit. A little bitch named Olga (who was bangin' every guy in school but yours truely) told me in front of several other students, "I could find better than you in a junk heap." Wearing a brace at age 13..that made quite an impression.

But, if you hang in there long enough "what goes around does come around."

Last time I saw Olga was when I went through the drive tru of a Whataburger in Corpus Christi. I was in my 2nd 'Vette, with the top down, my gorgous red headed future wife with me (36th anniversary right around the corner) and Olga was knocked up and fellin' down.

I hate to admit it, but I savored that moment.
Top
#41120 - 06/09/06 02:17 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
MrSoul
Member


Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 8330
Loc: Desolation Row
Quote:
Originally posted by MerryA:
What did you confide to me privately that you think I have shared?
I'd be glad to reprint the original PM exchange, Merry, in which we talked about my wife. But you said in the other thread that you didn't want me to, so I won't.

But that might refresh your memory a bit.

~~

Glad you liked the cover, John! I read virtually ALL of those!

Proud to be a freak brother,
TJ
_________________________
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity."--Edgar Allen Poe

Top
#41121 - 06/09/06 06:56 PM Re: Another parents attempts to murder her twin disabled sons (with cp)
dowdy
Member


Registered: 04/12/00
Posts: 3344 		OK So first they philosophize away the death of children, then they philosophize that they don't think paraplegics or others would be better off dead. This from Britain......

Sarah Boseley , health editor
Thursday June 8, 2006
The Guardian

One of the country's leading experts on medical ethics today calls for doctors to be able to end the lives of some terminally ill patients "swiftly, humanely and without guilt" - even if they have not given consent.

Len Doyal, emeritus professor of medical ethics at Queen Mary, University of London, takes the euthanasia debate into new and highly contentious territory. He says doctors should recognise that they are already killing patients when they remove feeding tubes from those whose lives are judged to be no longer worth living. Some will suffer a "slow and distressing death" as a result.

Article continues
It would be better if their lives were ended without this unnecessary delay, Professor Doyal writes in an article in Clinical Ethics, published by the Royal Society of Medicine. He calls for the law and professional guidance to be changed.

Critics said yesterday that the views of Prof Doyal, a member of the British Medical Association medical ethics committee for nine years, were the "very worst form of medical paternalism".

Prof Doyal was a supporter of Lord Joffe's assisted dying bill that would have allowed terminally ill patients to request a cocktail of drugs to end their lives early. Opponents of the bill shelved it by voting for a postponement for further debate. But Prof Doyal is now taking the debate a stage further.

He argues that doctors are already effectively practicing euthanasia on patients who have no consciousness beyond the capacity to suffer pain and says this should extend to those patients who can no longer speak for themselves.

He says he is not the only medical professional to hold this view. In the article, Prof Doyal says withdrawing life-saving treatment from severely incompetent patients - which may involve turning off a ventilator, ending antibiotics or withdrawing a feeding tube - is "believed to be morally appropriate because it constitutes doing nothing. It is disease that does the dirty work, not the clinician. Yet this argument cannot wash away the foreseeable suffering of severely incompetent patients sometimes forced to die avoidably slow and distressing deaths."

He draws a parallel with a father who sees his baby drowning in the bath and fails to do anything to save it. The father foresaw the certainty of the death and did nothing and would therefore be morally considered to have killed the child.

"Clinicians who starve severely incompetent patients to death are not deemed by law to have killed them actively, even if they begin the process by the removal of feeding tubes. The legal fiction that such starvation is not active killing is no more than clumsy judicial camouflage of the euthanasia that is actually occurring."

His concern, he says, is not only with patients who are in a permanent vegetative state and therefore feel nothing at all. "The category of patients that concerns me most are the patients where we are not sure. There is still some brain function, but they will never have any brain awareness or cognitive function, but they seem to be suffering," he told the Guardian. This could, for instance, happen after an accident or a stroke. He does not believe that legalising non-voluntary euthanasia for such patients would lead to more or inappropriate deaths.

"We have a situation where these decisions are being made all the time and yet we have no coherent system of regulation for them. We really don't know what is going on out there, as they do in Holland where all this is legal or in Oregon where they have physician-assisted suicide.

"Where you have legalisation, you have the best data about what is going on because people are not afraid to report it," he added.

Peter Saunders, the campaign director of Care Not Killing, an alliance of healthcare professionals and others opposed to euthanasia and the Joffe bill, said Prof Doyal was confusing the withdrawal of treatment that was more of a burden than a benefit to a dying patient with actively ending life.

"Doyal is advocating the very worst form of medical paternalism whereby doctors can end the lives of patients after making a judgment that their lives are of no value and claim that they are simply acting in their patients' best interests," he said.

"The clear lesson from the Netherlands, where over 1,000 patients are killed by doctors every year without their consent and where babies with special needs are killed ... is that when voluntary euthanasia is legalised involuntary euthanasia inevitably follows."

The British Medical Association declined to comment on Prof Doyal's article. "We have a neutral position," said a spokeswoman. "We leave it to society to decide."
Top
Page all of 9 12345>Last »


Hop to:
My Cookies · Mark all read Powered by UBB.threads™ Contact Us · Newmobility.com · Top

Generated in 0.353 seconds in which 0.275 seconds were spent on a total of 12 queries. Zlib compression disabled.