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#40594 - 05/13/06 05:09 PM Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
flicka
Member


Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
I don't argue with your assertions that we are in a physical sense, "less", however, this particular thread isn't about one part of our being, it is about our entire selves, mind, body, and soul.
I don't see it that way. I believe that Justice John Fogarty looked at only the physical condition of McCormick. Had McCormick been ab, his mind, body, and soul might have entered the picture.
Quote:
He told Smail: "The evidence is that you thought you were doing an
act of mercy in a way that minimised any awareness that he was
about to die and was being killed."
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#40596 - 05/13/06 05:34 PM Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
Greg
Member


Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 10000
Quote:
Originally posted by flicka:
Quote:
Originally posted by Greg:
If you are willing to put yourself out there, not only are you dealt with as an equal, but are also usually given brownie points for doing it with a disability.
You are given brownie points for the ability to do it with a body that is not whole. That attitude is not equality based.
I defy anyone to say they suffer from no inequality.

Before I was hurt, my legs were too short for my body, my head was oversized and I had a wicked stutter (ooow, scarey picture). Was I "equal" to my peer group? not really, was I disabled? well yes if you consider being an ugly duckling disabled. Did it stop me from doing stuff, of course not. None of us, AB and non-AB are equal.

My X (bless her wicked heart) after she left, taught me a good life lesson when I was feeling oppressed one weekend, she said "no one really cares about your disability Greg, get over yourself, I have a date tonight so I will be dropping the kids off earlier than usual"
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#40597 - 05/13/06 05:42 PM Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
flicka
Member


Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
Quote:
Originally posted by Greg:
I defy anyone to say they suffer from no inequality.
I agree and I, also, do not consider that attitude an act of oppression.
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#40598 - 05/13/06 05:52 PM Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America 		Of course we will all run into some people who look at us less than equal. The same applies for just about ever person on this Earth.

I don't however believe that society would allow me to kill a dying cancer patient and only give me a slap on the wrist because that person was going to die is a short while anyways.

Plea bargains happen everyday, they aren't always fair, and they never give the victims (or their families) a sense of justice. It is what it is, and disability/ability have little to nothing to do with it.
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#40599 - 05/13/06 05:54 PM Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
Greg
Member


Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 10000
Quote:
Originally posted by Sylvana:
Greg, you said, "We are ambassadors for those who come behind us, I ain't living the rest of my life being mad at the world and I got no time nor the energy to feel oppressed.

I find it curious that you equate fighting oppression with "being mad at the world." I have known many people involved with civil rights issues and not one was. They were, however, struggling to create a better life for their children.
I guess the point I am trying to make is that much of the oppression I face in my day to day to day life is manageable. Whereas in the past an oppresive situation used to make me angry, today with a little creative thinking, determination and a smile many perceived obstacles have become manageable, not perfect, but manageable.

I applaud those working civil rights issues but I also understand the frustration felt by the struggling restaurant owner who has to put out $15K to modify his washrooms for an extra $100 a month in sales.
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#40600 - 05/13/06 05:57 PM Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America 		Amen again Greg.

We are only oppressed if we allow ourselves to be...and those that choose to take their much needed fight for civil rights to the level of fearmongering are obviously incapable of thriving dispite the fragile barriers.
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#40602 - 05/13/06 07:44 PM Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America 		Did I say it was "ok" for a light sentence? I am appauled at how quickly the justice system offers plea bargains to criminals just to try and keep the courts un-clogged. But to think this injustice is only something the disabled are facing is ridiculous.
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#40603 - 05/13/06 08:27 PM Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
StarlightAngel
Member


Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
Quote:
Originally posted by flicka:
One cannot debate the oppression we suffer if they don't believe we are oppressed.
"there are many ways to victimize people. one way is to convince them that they are victims." - tom robbins
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#40604 - 05/13/06 08:39 PM Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by StarlightAngel:
Quote:
Originally posted by flicka:
One cannot debate the oppression we suffer if they don't believe we are oppressed.
"there are many ways to victimize people. one way is to convince them that they are victims." - tom robbins
Now that...imho...says it all.
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#40605 - 05/13/06 09:14 PM Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
flicka
Member


Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
Quote:
Originally posted by StarlightAngel:
there are many ways to victimize people. one way is to convince them that they are victims." - tom robbins
Nice quote! I don't think facing the fact that society looks at a disabled body as less valuable then a 'normal' fit body makes anyone a victim. It's reality. (Christ, I feel like Lazer.)

I am only viewing this judges decision as based on physical perception of McCormick's state. I don't see the attitude as oppression of the disabled. It's ignorance imo. Greg's right about being role models. People will only change perceptions when they know our spirit and personalities well enough.

If one sees a lame animal, they see an animal less physically fit than the norm. People sue breeders if a dog they bought doesn't meet expectations. They take dogs whose ears don't stand up properly to the pound.

There is much about this case we don't know. I am only discussing what we see in this article.
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#40606 - 05/13/06 11:35 PM Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
I don't think facing the fact that society looks at a disabled body as less valuable then a 'normal' fit body makes anyone a victim.
You are correct, society, and in a way, we ourselves do look at our bodies as less than an able body. That fact isn't about perception, that is just a statement of fact.

However, if one is going to suggest that the person got off lighter because the murdered a person with a body that doesn't work "normally" then we would see people getting light sentences for killing seniors, fat people, people bedridden from cancer and other diseases.

I do agree with your agreement with what Greg says regarding the fact we need to show the ABs out there that we are able, that we are capable, that we are fully functioning members of society. When the AB world hears us complain, hears us demand SPECIAL rights and privileges do you think that sort of thing helps? When that business owner Greg describes is forced to make major renovations to his business all because one crip wants to spend 50 dollars a year in his business, do you think that business owner has a better feeling about crips? I don't think so.

Bottom line AGAIN. The justice system sucks, the idea that a murderer can make a plea bargain with prosecuters and get a light sentence is horrible, for society and for the victim and their family. But to suggest that this is a disability issue is akin to fearmongering and the quote Karen provided does indeed apply.
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#40607 - 05/14/06 03:06 AM Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
cass
Member


Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3505
Loc: WA 		isn't society outraged by the nurses who kill elderly in the hospital?

where is the diff here?
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#40608 - 05/14/06 09:35 AM Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
ParaDude
Member


Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
Quote:
Originally posted by cass:
isn't society outraged by the nurses who kill elderly in the hospital?

where is the diff here?
Yup society is outraged when that happens, society is outraged when a person with a dis is killed as well. To suggest otherwise, to suggest society is ok with the killing of a crip is akin to fearmongering...which is what I stated in my first response.
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#40609 - 05/14/06 10:05 AM Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
flicka
Member


Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
When the AB world hears us complain, hears us demand SPECIAL rights and privileges do you think that sort of thing helps? When that business owner Greg describes is forced to make major renovations to his business all because one crip wants to spend 50 dollars a year in his business, do you think that business owner has a better feeling about crips? I don't think so.
How do you figure access to businesses and bathrooms constitutes SPECIAL rights and privileges. I have no pity for businesses who haven't made an attempt to comply with our ADA law. They've had 16 years.
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#40610 - 05/14/06 10:09 AM Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
flicka
Member


Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
Quote:
Originally posted by ParaDude:
To suggest otherwise, to suggest society is ok with the killing of a crip is akin to fearmongering...which is what I stated in my first response.
I think the article's focus is on the judge's decision not society as a whole.
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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