#40577 - 05/13/06 12:09 PM
Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
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ParaDude
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Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Fearmongering at it's finest.
:rolleyes:
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#40579 - 05/13/06 01:28 PM
Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
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ParaDude
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Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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LOL...for every example of a disabled person being killed I can provide 200 examples of seniors being killed. For every example of a senior being killed I can provide 200 examples of women being killed.
Are the seniors 200X less important to society than the disabled? Are the women 200X less important to society than seniors?
Puleeeze.
Perhaps someone like you Syl is considered "less" than anyone else, I can understand that, but for the vast majority of us, we live as equals, no matter how much your pathetic paranoid mind likes to believe otherwise.
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#40581 - 05/13/06 03:11 PM
Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
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flicka
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Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Originally posted by Paradude: Perhaps someone like you Sly is considered "less" than anyone else, I can understand that, but for the vast majority of us, we live as equals, no matter how much your pathetic paranoid mind likes to believe otherwise. We live as equals from our point of view. You are kidding yourself if you think people don't view disabled bodies as less valuable than 'normal' bodies.
Originally posted by Sylvana: Perhaps, some day, we will be treated with equal justice, but that will never happen if disabled people themselves believe the oppression we suffer should never be debated. One cannot debate the oppression we suffer if they don't believe we are oppressed.
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#40582 - 05/13/06 03:33 PM
Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
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ParaDude
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Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Some people probably do view us as less valuable...no doubt about it. Some people look at homeless people as less valuable. Some look at athiests as less valuable. Some look at Blacks as less valuable. Some look at women as less valuable.
All people do not look at us or them in that same high and mighty manner.
Edited to add: Most killers who are in prison serving a sentence of less than "Life" managed to plea down to a charge of manslaughter, even though they were originally chargers with murder. Are you saying that their victims are "less valuable" as well?
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#40583 - 05/13/06 04:06 PM
Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
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flicka
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Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Originally posted by ParaDude: Some people probably do view us as less valuable...
I think a majority of sci injured consider their bodies less valuable than normal. Otherwise the hope for a cure would not be so popular.
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#40584 - 05/13/06 04:08 PM
Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
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ParaDude
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Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Originally posted by flicka: Originally posted by ParaDude: Some people probably do view us as less valuable...
I think a majority of sci injured consider their bodies less valuable than normal. Otherwise the hope for a cure would not be so popular. We are less able physically, that is why we all hope for a miraculous cure. That has nothing to do with our value as human beings.
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#40585 - 05/13/06 04:16 PM
Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Originally posted by ParaDude: That has nothing to do with our value as human beings. No, it has nothing to do with our value as human beings...however...
What is the reaction when a healthy 27 year-old ab is killed? OOOOOOOOO how tragic!
What is the reaction when a healthy 27 year-old sci injured dies? OOOOOOOOO how tragic! At least he's free from pain & suffering!
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#40586 - 05/13/06 04:19 PM
Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
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ParaDude
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Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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What is the reaction when a healthy 27 year-old sci injured dies? OOOOOOOOO how tragic! At least he's free from pain & suffering! Really? That is the reaction? Source?
I know their are cancer patients who suffer from pain and discomfort who get that kind of reaction. I myself said that exact same thing when my Mom passed away. Are those suffering from cancer now considered "less" by society? Perhaps by some individuals but certainly not by society as a whole.
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#40587 - 05/13/06 04:26 PM
Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
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Greg
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Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 10000
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I beleive we are valued as much as we "attempt" to be valuable.
I find this with my work clients, people that provide services at my home, my kids teachers at school and even those "selfish brat" friends of my teenage kids. If you are willing to put yourself out there, not only are you dealt with as an equal, but are also usually given brownie points for doing it with a disability.
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#40588 - 05/13/06 04:33 PM
Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Originally posted by Greg: I beleive we are valued as much as we "attempt" to be valuable.
I find this with my work clients, people that provide services at my home, my kids teachers at school and even those "selfish brat" friends of my teenage kids. If you are willing to put yourself out there, not only are you dealt with as an equal, but are also usually given brownie points for doing it with a disability. Amen to that Greg.
I am not my disability. Yes it is a part of me, and yes it does at times dictate that path I take in this journey called life.
When one reads the original post one comes away with the idea that the poster suggests that the world looks at us as sub-human, not worthy of the same things as an AB. What a crock.
Have I run into barriers, oppressive people, those who think (without knowing my circumstance) that I am a drain on society? You bet I have. But for every one of those types I have met dozens of others who look at me for what I am able to do, not what I am not able to do.
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#40589 - 05/13/06 04:36 PM
Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Originally posted by Sylvana: The fact that seniors die everyday at the hands of others, does not lessen the fact that when someone kills a disabled person, the crime is viewed as somehow less reprehensible because the disabled life is deemed to have less value. Informing society and reacting to the outrage is not fear mongering; it is simply educating the public. Perhaps, some day, we will be treated with equal justice, but that will never happen if disabled people themselves believe the oppression we suffer should never be debated. So the victims of those people who are serving less than life for murder (cuz they pleaded down to manslaughter) are also oppressed? :rolleyes:
No one said anything about not debating the issue. Debating the issue is exactly what we are doing now.
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#40590 - 05/13/06 04:54 PM
Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Originally posted by ParaDude: Are those suffering from cancer now considered "less" by society? Physically, yes. Their value as a human being is not less, but physically, yes. The illness has made them physically less than 'normal'.
Their bodies are not whole. Neither is the body of those living with sci.
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#40591 - 05/13/06 04:57 PM
Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Originally posted by Greg: If you are willing to put yourself out there, not only are you dealt with as an equal, but are also usually given brownie points for doing it with a disability. You are given brownie points for the ability to do it with a body that is not whole. That attitude is not equality based.
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#40592 - 05/13/06 05:01 PM
Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
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ParaDude
Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 33855
Loc: United Provinces of America
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Originally posted by flicka: Originally posted by ParaDude: Are those suffering from cancer now considered "less" by society? Physically, yes. Their value as a human being is not less, but physically, yes. The illness has made them physically less than 'normal'.
Their bodies are not whole. Neither is the body of those living with sci. Now back to the original jist of the post and that was that the disabled are looked at as less important in society than an AB. I don't argue with your assertions that we are in a physical sense, "less", however, this particular thread isn't about one part of our being, it is about our entire selves, mind, body, and soul. That said, I don't think society looks at us as less important and I don't think this caregiver was given such a light sentence because the person killed was disabled, IF that were true then I don't think it is a commentary of society in general, just a blip on the radar screen.
Criminals make plea bargains, for the victim, and their families, this "system" is hardly something they would consider to be "fair".
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#40593 - 05/13/06 05:05 PM
Re: News & Satire - carer murders NZ paralympian gets 7 years
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Greg
Member
Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 10000
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Originally posted by Sylvana: Perhaps, some day, we will be treated with equal justice, but that will never happen if disabled people themselves believe the oppression we suffer should never be debated. I do not see it as oppression, my experiences has lead me to beleive the average person is just uninformed.
When my kids and me went looking to buy a boat, the boat yard and showroom were a nightmare, the kids pushed and pulled and lifted me. The owner looked on with a dumb, mystified look on his face. BUT WE DID NOT GET IN THE OWNERS FACE. The next time we came back there was a piece of plywood by the front door and the owner had cleared access to the areas I wanted. We thanked him and we ended up buying a boat there. Each year when we go back to get our boat out of storage, he always has a new fangled gadget to make it easier for me.
We are ambassadors for those who come behind us, I ain't living the rest of my life being mad at the world and I got no time nor the energy to feel oppressed.
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