Originally posted by Paradude:
Perhaps someone like you Sly is considered "less" than anyone else, I can understand that, but for the vast majority of us, we live as equals, no matter how much your pathetic paranoid mind likes to believe otherwise.

Originally posted by Sylvana:
Perhaps, some day, we will be treated with equal justice, but that will never happen if disabled people themselves believe the oppression we suffer should never be debated.

Originally posted by ParaDude:
Some people probably do view us as less valuable...

Originally posted by flicka:

Quote:

Originally posted by ParaDude:
Some people probably do view us as less valuable...

I think a majority of sci injured consider their bodies less valuable than normal. Otherwise the hope for a cure would not be so popular.

Originally posted by ParaDude:
That has nothing to do with our value as human beings.

What is the reaction when a healthy 27 year-old sci injured dies? OOOOOOOOO how tragic! At least he's free from pain & suffering!

Originally posted by Greg:
I beleive we are valued as much as we "attempt" to be valuable.

I find this with my work clients, people that provide services at my home, my kids teachers at school and even those "selfish brat" friends of my teenage kids. If you are willing to put yourself out there, not only are you dealt with as an equal, but are also usually given brownie points for doing it with a disability.

Originally posted by Sylvana:
The fact that seniors die everyday at the hands of others, does not lessen the fact that when someone kills a disabled person, the crime is viewed as somehow less reprehensible because the disabled life is deemed to have less value. Informing society and reacting to the outrage is not fear mongering; it is simply educating the public. Perhaps, some day, we will be treated with equal justice, but that will never happen if disabled people themselves believe the oppression we suffer should never be debated.

Originally posted by ParaDude:
Are those suffering from cancer now considered "less" by society?

Originally posted by Greg:
If you are willing to put yourself out there, not only are you dealt with as an equal, but are also usually given brownie points for doing it with a disability.

Originally posted by flicka:

Quote:

Originally posted by ParaDude:
Are those suffering from cancer now considered "less" by society?

Physically, yes. Their value as a human being is not less, but physically, yes. The illness has made them physically less than 'normal'.

Their bodies are not whole. Neither is the body of those living with sci.

Originally posted by Sylvana:
Perhaps, some day, we will be treated with equal justice, but that will never happen if disabled people themselves believe the oppression we suffer should never be debated.

Originally posted by ParaDude:
I don't argue with your assertions that we are in a physical sense, "less", however, this particular thread isn't about one part of our being, it is about our entire selves, mind, body, and soul.

He told Smail: "The evidence is that you thought you were doing an
act of mercy in a way that minimised any awareness that he was
about to die and was being killed."

Originally posted by flicka:

Quote:

Originally posted by Greg:
If you are willing to put yourself out there, not only are you dealt with as an equal, but are also usually given brownie points for doing it with a disability.

You are given brownie points for the ability to do it with a body that is not whole. That attitude is not equality based.

Originally posted by Greg:
I defy anyone to say they suffer from no inequality.

Originally posted by Sylvana:
Greg, you said, "We are ambassadors for those who come behind us, I ain't living the rest of my life being mad at the world and I got no time nor the energy to feel oppressed.

I find it curious that you equate fighting oppression with "being mad at the world." I have known many people involved with civil rights issues and not one was. They were, however, struggling to create a better life for their children.

Originally posted by flicka:
One cannot debate the oppression we suffer if they don't believe we are oppressed.

Originally posted by StarlightAngel:

Quote:

Originally posted by flicka:
One cannot debate the oppression we suffer if they don't believe we are oppressed.

"there are many ways to victimize people. one way is to convince them that they are victims." - tom robbins

Originally posted by StarlightAngel:
there are many ways to victimize people. one way is to convince them that they are victims." - tom robbins

I don't think facing the fact that society looks at a disabled body as less valuable then a 'normal' fit body makes anyone a victim.

Originally posted by cass:
isn't society outraged by the nurses who kill elderly in the hospital?

where is the diff here?

Originally posted by ParaDude:
When the AB world hears us complain, hears us demand SPECIAL rights and privileges do you think that sort of thing helps? When that business owner Greg describes is forced to make major renovations to his business all because one crip wants to spend 50 dollars a year in his business, do you think that business owner has a better feeling about crips? I don't think so.

Originally posted by ParaDude:
To suggest otherwise, to suggest society is ok with the killing of a crip is akin to fearmongering...which is what I stated in my first response.

Originally posted by flicka:

Quote:

Originally posted by ParaDude:
To suggest otherwise, to suggest society is ok with the killing of a crip is akin to fearmongering...which is what I stated in my first response.

I think the article's focus is on the judge's decision not society as a whole.

Originally posted by flicka:

Quote:

Originally posted by ParaDude:
When the AB world hears us complain, hears us demand SPECIAL rights and privileges do you think that sort of thing helps? When that business owner Greg describes is forced to make major renovations to his business all because one crip wants to spend 50 dollars a year in his business, do you think that business owner has a better feeling about crips? I don't think so.

How do you figure access to businesses and bathrooms constitutes SPECIAL rights and privileges. I have no pity for businesses who haven't made an attempt to comply with our ADA law. They've had 16 years.

Originally posted by flicka:
I don't think facing the fact that society looks at a disabled body as less valuable then a 'normal' fit body makes anyone a victim. It's reality.

Originally posted by ParaDude:
If one African American is found hanging in a tree in Maine is it logical for all African American's in Maine to feal fear and oppresion?

Originally posted by Greg:
But shit, I hate to admit it to myself and try to prove to myself each day that being disabled does not define me, even if it does control me.

Originally posted by ParaDude:
So don't shop there. Problem solved.

Originally posted by flicka:

Quote:

Originally posted by ParaDude:
If one African American is found hanging in a tree in Maine is it logical for all African American's in Maine to feal fear and oppresion?

Only if the authorities say "we aren't going to investigate further because the victim is black."

We shouldn't feel fear and oppression, but we should acknowledge and be aware of the fact that attitudes like this judge's do exist.

Originally posted by flicka:

Quote:

Originally posted by ParaDude:
So don't shop there. Problem solved.

Yep. problem solved. We can't force people to accept us as equals. The law can only force them to treat us as equals.

Originally posted by flicka:

Quote:

Originally posted by ParaDude:
So don't shop there. Problem solved.

Yep. problem solved. We can't force people to accept us as equals. The law can only force them to treat us as equals.

Originally posted by Greg:

Quote:

Originally posted by flicka:

Quote:

Originally posted by ParaDude:
So don't shop there. Problem solved.

Yep. problem solved. We can't force people to accept us as equals. The law can only force them to treat us as equals.

Canada does not have the ADA so I use the "Pain In The Ass Aproach". My local, small town bank is not accessable so on days when my kids can't help out I sit outside the bank and call inside with my cell phone. A bank employee comes out and takes my paperwork and does my banking and each time her and I fill out a complaint card.

I ain't sitting at the back of the bus.

Originally posted by ParaDude:
Do you think a small business owner is going to think better, or worse, about people with disabilities because he was forced to shell out thousands of dollars to upgrade his washroom on the off hand chance that some customer in a wheelchair shows up needing to pee?

Originally posted by Doug:

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Originally posted by Greg:

Quote:

Originally posted by flicka:

quote:

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Originally posted by ParaDude:
So don't shop there. Problem solved.

Yep. problem solved. We can't force people to accept us as equals. The law can only force them to treat us as equals.

Canada does not have the ADA so I use the "Pain In The Ass Aproach". My local, small town bank is not accessable so on days when my kids can't help out I sit outside the bank and call inside with my cell phone. A bank employee comes out and takes my paperwork and does my banking and each time her and I fill out a complaint card.

I ain't sitting at the back of the bus.

Originally posted by ParaDude:


If the business doesn't want my business then I will take it to another that appreciates me.

Originally posted by Doug:

Quote:

Originally posted by ParaDude:


If the business doesn't want my business then I will take it to another that appreciates me.

That's good. They'll appreciate you in the back of the bus. Enjoy your ride.

Originally posted by flicka:
Your disability can only define you if you allow it. You are in control of your definition of yourself. We can't control other people's perception, but we can sway them.

Originally posted by ParaDude:

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Originally posted by Doug:

Quote:

Originally posted by ParaDude:


If the business doesn't want my business then I will take it to another that appreciates me.

That's good. They'll appreciate you in the back of the bus. Enjoy your ride.

I ride in the front of the bus, it is the business themselves that I put behind me.

Originally posted by ParaDude:


If the business doesn't want my business then I will take it to another that appreciates me.

Greg - I don't know what part of Canada you live in but I have travelled all over Western Canada and have yet to find a bank that isn't accessible, nor have I found a grocery store that isn't accessible, nor any government building, doctor's office, hospital. I'm not they don't exist somewhere, but the idea that you have CHOOSEN use the 1% of all banks in Canada that isn't accessible seems a little strange to me. Any reason why you simply don't try using one of the other 99%?

Originally posted by Sylvana:
Nice to see you back, MrSoul.

Originally posted by sodapop:

Quote:

Originally posted by Sylvana:
Nice to see you back, MrSoul.

he won't come back until rob dies.
rob

Originally posted by ParaDude:
If one African American is found hanging in a tree in Maine is it logical for all African American's in Maine to feal fear and oppresion?

Originally posted by StarlightAngel:
most people just can't conceive of the dis experience, in part because most people don't actually know any actual disabled people. that's why you aren't going to change social perceptions with legislation.