#40336 - 03/27/06 11:50 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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cass
Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3505
Loc: WA
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Originally posted by ladyheart:
Cass, you know that I respect your opinions and I agree that "discussion" of end of life options are critical for everyone, regardless of whether one has a disability or not. Living wills, medical power of attorney, DNR orders etc should all be in place for each of us. Our family, our spouses, even our close friends should be informed of what we have decided we want, so there is no doubt, no confusion, and above all no guilt once those decisions and wishes have been carried out.
For me, I have to believe that my father "died" peacefully, and not the "horrible" death as described, by the process of "comfort care" and lack of hydration during his final days at hospice.
take care,
Donna
My brother died in a hospital. The last days of his life he didn't communicate either. We think the cancer got to his brain. He was restless and the doctors advised a morphine drip. This was 18 yrs ago. I hope they have better things now. Anyway, he was not dehydrated either.
I just cannot imagine watching any loved one, esp. my child, being dehydrated to death against my will. I believe it is inhumane not even to allow some ice, some popsicle, if not IV fluids. Starvation seems hard (although ultimately that's what finally kills many cancer patients), but total dehydration seems cruel.
I am sure whatever happened with your dad was done with compassion and kindness. I'm not so sure in other cases and I guess you know my thoughts on this one. There were just too many conflicts in the guardian's life, too little evidence of wishes and too many legalities ignored. It just doesn't feel right. To me.
If we, as a society, are going to, on the one hand, scream about lethal injection being cruel for murderers, how can we, as a society, condone total dehydration (which takes 2 weeks, not 2 minutes) of people we deem have no quality of life?
I have a friend who had triplets. They were fine at birth, but then around 1 month all three contracted something (I can't recall the name right now). It happened in hours, going from a fever to an emergency life and death situation. Two are fine now. A year later, the third is on a vent and cannot move her arms, yet moves her legs. Her brain activity, well, they really don't know much. The virus affected her brain stem but her higher functions? Really unknown. Anyway, there were a few doctors who gently encouraged pulling the vent. My friend didn't. She has 2 babies at home and a 4 yr old. I think people in her situation need encouragement and support, not the move toward euthanization we seem to be experiencing.
I know there is no real analogy between an end of life situation and a baby. But there is a very real one between a disabled baby and disabled adults who we can never be sure what they feel. Reading The Diving Bell and the Butterfly is proof, to me, that our perceptions are not necessarily right.
Take care, Donna. I know you had a hard time.
BTW, in reference to Schiavo books, don't forget Mark Fuhrman's.  Unless you believe he has a bias. I haven't read it, but someone mentioning O.J. made me think of it.
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#40337 - 03/28/06 10:57 AM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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StarlightAngel
Member
Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
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hang on - is what u are objecting to the decision itself or the method?
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#40338 - 03/28/06 01:21 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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I
Member
Registered: 02/28/00
Posts: 2513
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maggieodae
Your statement:
"Three months ago I stood beside the bed of my dying husband. No dumb nitwit was even going to suggest starving him to death. Michael is/was an idiot!How stupid and cowardly and evil does this world have to get? "
Starving someone to death is never the suggestion, it is the only legal possibility at the moment. I am sure everyone would prefer that the dying would be easy and quick, except you of course. Who is the one who is supposed to be so brave, you or your husband?
Your statement:
"Life isn't always perfect, but it is LIFE until God say's it is not!"
That is putting it very mildly, life is ruthless. So God says the life should end, by suffocating people in mud slides, roasting and suffocating them in fires, infesting them with diseases, programming the genes, accidents, explosions, birth defects, etc. etc. etc. etc. which God is making that decision, and where is his love and compassion? I think it best to let those doing the suffering, make the decision.. Life for its own sake no matter the amount of suffering, is abuse of the one doing the suffering
Your statement:
"Father Pavone is right on. Been there done that.
" I also was in coma when I was a child. Yeah! Drooling brainless idiot to the likes of the killer crowd. Thank the good lord Michael and dumb ass company was NOT in charge."
And what if you had stayed in the coma, and continued to deteriorate? The dumb ass, killer crowd, doesn't want anybody's life ended simply because they are in a coma. The question is the length of time and whether the person is improving or deteriorating.. Did You thank your good lord, for the coma? You have certainly thanked him for you husband's suffering; it is so graceful. Not quite as graceful as being in hell though
Your statement:
"You go girl. Make the real brainless idiots think about it."
We are waiting for you to start thinking, about the person who is in that situation, rather than your imagined God. The only one you have any right to keep in that situation, is yourself.
Your statement:
"I personally was glad to be in a vegitative state and alive regardless of what the nincompoops thought."
bullshit.
Your statement:
" Just beacause it wasn't pretty nor according to the average persons ideals, didn't make it a life less worthy. "
Where did you get the idiotic idea, that anyone wants anyone's life to be ended because they are ugly?
Your statement:
"OH! And yeah! God does exist...but those who think they are their own creator don't get it. They will in the end. "
Many people like you, said many gods existed. They were wrong,as you are are wrong. W e do not have to wait till the end, to know what is obvious. It is only people like yourself with your imagined gods and afterlife, that have to be frightened about imagined happenings after you are dead
Your statement:
"Everyone dies, and everyone has a choice about Eternity. God sends no one to hell. There are more than enough self absorbed idiots who send themselves there."
You are as self absorbed as anyone else. Who could be more self absorbed, then someone so concerned about existing for eternity? No one has any choice about eternity, including your imagined God.. Make some sense. If your God created a hell, if your God decided that those who did not conform would go to that hell, your God has set up the mechanism that puts the there. No one would ever volunteer to go there, and only your God would be evil enough to send anyone them.
Your statement:
"Well, after 44 years of fighting the good fight, the loss was not a loss.It was one grace after another, regardless of what the cowards of this world say. "
It is the law of nature for its creatures to flee from, and try to prevent their suffering. The fleeing is for the creatures safety and well-being. It is only perverted thinking, to thank that suffering has anything to do with grace . That perverted kind of thinking, is an attempt to hide the evil of your concocted God from yourself and others
Your statement:
"God and heaven and hell do exit. My beloved had the good moral sense to keep on fighting until God said enough. Yes, I looked into his eye's, held him, loved him and watched him die in Gods good time... and it was a lot longer than one stinking hour."
They do? All of them? Allah, Apollo, Zeus, Odin, Mog Ruith, Ra, Buddha, Isis, Thor, Amun, Baal, Hurakan, Pele, Kuan Ti, Krishna, and an infinite number of other Gods
Or conveniently, does just your God exist? The others must still exist also, because gods cannot be wiped out.; Unless of course they are just lies, in which case they can just be ignored out of existence, like you have ignored Allah out of existence
What was your beloved one fighting? Was he fighting your gods wishes that he be dead? Or was he fighting for his own desires? That is the ultimate morality, isn't it. How Unfeeling, how un--compassionate, how evil, for you and your concocted God; to make him go through that for so long. It was not his moral sense to keep on going, it was a contemplate lack of choice
Your statement:
" No...death and suffering is not pretty. But the world must be painfree and perfect crowd, will never get it. Mores the pity for them. In the end they lose it all. "
No evil never is pretty. Those , " But the world must be painfree and perfect crowd, will never get it." You mean those like yourself, who imagine and seek a heaven that is pain-free and perfect? In the end you need and want nothing
Your statement:
"The nitwits of the world gave up on him when he was 19. God had other plans. We have 3 great kids, 3 grandchildren, and one G Grandchild. He was a better man by far than the Michael Schivos of this world.And he lived with dignity and purpose to the very end."
Glory hallelujah, now doesn't that just make everything all right. That could have all been had, without his suffering. It is like saying it doesn't matter that someone suffered starving to death, because we have plenty of food now. He was no better than anybody else. Stop glorifying him to candy coat your willingness to let him suffer, and pretend that that is what he wanted
Wabi
your statement:
"You better hope he is"
And you better hope, that Allah and all the rest of the liar created gods are myths
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#40339 - 03/28/06 04:32 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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cass
Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3505
Loc: WA
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dr. star, i was throwing out the question. what are the objections? if we are going to determine some people's lives are not worthy, why don't we use lethal injection? i have my own theory on it.
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#40340 - 03/28/06 05:14 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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candra
Member
Registered: 05/17/00
Posts: 2877
Loc: Ripon, CA US
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I don't really think it has to do with folks deermining if someones life is worthy or not Cass, at least from how I see it. It's about respecting someones wishes (in the Schiavo case) and trying to ease the pain of a dying relative (such in Donna's case).
There are two things that really stand out in the Schiavo case for me:
1. Teryy told her hubby she did not want to be kept alive by artificail means if she was brain dead (after seeing a movie on the subject).
2. She was in a persistent vegative state for over a dozen years (i forgot how many). There was no progress, and of course her parents hoped there would be progress and wanted to see that in little things she did everyday, (and I think that is normal) but the truth is there wasn't any hope.
Now of course your cases are different, as are probably those of millions of other folks. I think everybody has the right to determine what type of life they want to live and their relatives should respect that choice. If no advance directives exist, I think the best thing anybody can do is to try and do what that person would want.
As for this discussion. I just said it was pointless because we've hashed it out time and time again here. If we want to discuss end of life choices, then fine, but I say leave the whole Schiavo case out of it.
Candy
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#40341 - 03/28/06 05:49 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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Originally posted by candra:
As for this discussion. I just said it was pointless because we've hashed it out time and time again here. If we want to discuss end of life choices, then fine, but I say leave the whole Schiavo case out of it.
Candy 
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
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#40342 - 03/28/06 11:07 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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cass
Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3505
Loc: WA
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i have tried to leave my posts generic; in fact I believe i said in my first post it was best to leave schiavo out of it. but candy, in your last post you mentioned schiavo specifics and then said you didn't want to rehash the schiavo case.
since you mentioned it, though, i'm going to respond. it is not clear that terri's wishes were known. i don't think you've read court testimony.
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#40343 - 03/29/06 11:25 AM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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candra
Member
Registered: 05/17/00
Posts: 2877
Loc: Ripon, CA US
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Originally posted by cass: i have tried to leave my posts generic; in fact I believe i said in my first post it was best to leave schiavo out of it. but candy, in your last post you mentioned schiavo specifics and then said you didn't want to rehash the schiavo case.
Candy
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