#40304 - 03/26/06 11:06 AM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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StarlightAngel
Member
Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
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:rolleyes: please...
let it go, susan, let it go.
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#40305 - 03/26/06 12:12 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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ladyheart
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 3392
Loc: on a pathway, somewhat smooth,...
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Susan, you have a right to post anything you want here of course, as we all do, but I agree with Karen totally on this one, let it go, it only dredges up more "pain" for those of us who made similiar decisions for our loved ones.
My father spent his final last 10 days in a hospice facility, prior to that 3 weeks in the hospital, no brain activity, no chance of recovering. No life support, he breathed, he snored, just on IV for fluids, we had a choice to make, a hard choice, a painful choice, to put a feeding tube in and keep him "alive" in that unresponsive state or let him "go" and to do that we stop all IV and all futile care, he was given "comfort care" and we spent every day with him and watched the process up front and personal. In my father's case, the specifics of course are different, by the description by the priest of the "dying" process we witnessed was far from what he wrote. The Catholic nun that took wonderful care of my Dad, explained and comforted us all through the process, as did all the staff and dr's involved.
Would you call my mother and I "murderers" as well, do you not know how heart breaking it is to lose someone you love, but know that to "keep" them "existing" physically alone, when who "they" really were, their "spirit" their "soul" was already lost to us, would have been a truly selfish act IMO.
You can say, that yes in our case, my Dad had a living will and his wishes were "known" in advance and that makes the cases not comparable.
Yet,it's the "guilt" such statements like Father Pavone intend to inflict on folks who may face this kind of decision down the road that makes me angry. It's not about Michael and Terry at all.
I hope and pray my mother does not read or hear his statement.
Donna
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#40307 - 03/26/06 01:51 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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*ALBERT-1*
Member
Registered: 06/17/00
Posts: 3598
Loc: East Point,Georgia, USA
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Father Pavone is a priest, not a doctor. He is speaking strictly from an emotional and religious point of view, and he is prejudiced by the belief that life should be prolonged as long as possible. He is either unwilling or unable to judge the final autopsy report with any degree of accuracy. It would conflict with what he feels is his spiritual duty.
Terry was not only brain dead, but blind at the time of her death. Her brain had turned to mush. When she presumably "gazed" at Michael Schiavo and the others, it was not the look of a woman who sees but is unable to communicate. It was the reflex action of the eyes. And she could not have been aware of anything that she was feeling. That is all there is to it.
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#40308 - 03/26/06 02:37 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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I
Member
Registered: 02/28/00
Posts: 2513
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Xuxan
Your Statement:
"I'm not posting this to open up discussion about Terri Schiavo, but more in memory of her life that ended a year ago."
That is obviously much more than an attempt to memorize her. You might have talked a little about her character, her life, etc. if the intent was to memorize her.
How disgusting of this priest, to take advantage of the situation and suffering of Terri Schiavo,
to promote his religion.
Statement:
"A year ago this week, I stood by the bedside of the woman you married and promised to love in good times and bad, in sickness and health"
To end the suffering of someone you love, is an act of love, unless they do not want their life ended. If there was absolutely no way for anyone to find out what her desire was in that condition, then someone has to try to figure out what she might have wanted. It certainly should not be a priest, they will not give you her decision they will give you their religions decision. They are not interested in what she wants, they are interested in what they and their imagined God wants. The same seems to be true of her parents.
Not only a loving person but any person with Common decency, when trying to figure out what she might want, can only try to figure that out by asking themselves if they would want to be Alive under those circumstances. And take into consideration that There are people who want to commit suicide and some who do commit suicide, whose circumstances were far less severe then hers. People in her condition cannot reply or possibly even understand any question.. But how many of those who are nearest to her condition , would say yes they want to continue living in that condition.
Statement:
"She was enduring a very bad time, because she hadn't been given food or drink in nearly two weeks. And you were the one insisting that she continue to be deprived of food and water, right up to her death."
She was living a very bad life, that is conveniently ignored. It is because of people like the priest, that hospitals are limited to allowing a lingering suffering death, rather than a quick and easy one. Convicts are allowed a more humane death, then people in Terri's condition
Statement:
"I watched her face for hours on end, right up to moments before her last breath."
I will guarantee, that he did not watch her face for even one continuous hour
Statement:
"If you saw her too, and noticed what her eyes were doing, you know that to describe her last agony as peaceful is a lie."
Others watched what her eyes were doing, and others watched others and what their eyes were doing when they were doing. Let the priest tell us what her eyes were doing, and what he would like to pretend that it meant . But he would rather use the fear of the unknown and let you fearfully Imagen what it might have meant. He gains much more that way
So all the medical profession is lying? That stated by someone who's foundations and expertise is lying. If her death was agony, it is not the fault of her husband that that is the only way they were allowed to end her suffering. The priest is more to be blamed for that the her husband, because he promotes the garbage about life above all else, which is his real reason for his letter
Statement:
"This week, tens of millions of Americans will remember those agonizing days last year, and will scratch their heads trying to figure out why you didn't simply let Terri's mom, dad, and siblings take care of her, as they were willing to do. They offered you, again and again, the option to simply let them care for Terri, without asking anything of you."
That tens of millions of Americans, will have varying opinions on the matter, he has no business speaking for them, or for Terri
Easy talk, they will take care of her. Where will they get the money, and the time, and the energy? Those who take care of her will act one way when the cameras are on, and another way when the cameras are off. What happens when she becomes to much of a burden, both physically and economically? The kind of care and attention she will get when those things change, will deteriorate. I feel bad for anyone who is under the care of parents or anyone else, who are intent on keeping anyone alive under those circumstances. It is cruel, insensitive, and non- loving...who will know if they are being abused or neglected? They are not living a life, they are nothing but a sensory organ. Her parents are more concerned about their religious beliefs, then their daughter..
They were asking something of her husband. They were asking him to continue to continually know of and accept her suffering. And if she did tell him that she did not want to exist in that condition, then he would have been prevented from carrying out his promise to her
Statement:
"But you refused and continued to insist that Terri's feeding be stopped. She had no terminal illness. She was simply a disabled woman who needed extra care that you weren't willing to give"
What a filthy devious statement. She was not simply disabled. She needed a lot more, than extra care. Her husband's desire to end her suffering, to fulfill his promise (if given) is twisted around into nothing but a lack of desire to give her care. Let the priest prove that, before stating it. He is doing as they always do, defaming and demonizing her husband like they do to anyone who does not go along with what they want
Statement:
"I speak to you today on behalf of the tens of millions of Americans who still wonder why. I speak to you today to express their anger, their dismay, their outraged astonishment at your behavior in the midst of this tragedy. Most people will wonder about these questions in silence, but as one of only a few people who were eyewitnesses to Terri's dehydration, I have to speak."
We know you speak, and we know the real reason you speak. You have given the number of those supposedly against assisted suicide,, it is probably as fictitious as your description of her husband. Your looking into her eyes and deciding what it meant, is no more reliable than anyone else looking into her eyes and deciding what it meant. You have probably seen the reflection of your own desires, in her eyes. You do not have to speak, you want to speak. And you want to use her misfortune to promote your religion, under the guise that you are feeling so terrible for her
Statement:
"I have spoken to you before, not in person, but through mass media. Before Terri's feeding tube was removed for the last time, I appealed to you with respect, asking you not to continue on the road you were pursuing, urging you to reconsider your decisions, in the light of the damage you were doing. I invited you to talk. But you did not respond."
repetition = pounding over and over again, into the minds of those you wish to control Tactic after tactic, no honesty
Statement:
"Then, after Terri died, I called her death a killing, and I called you a murderer because you knew -- as we all did -- that ceasing to feed Terri would kill her. We watched, but you had the power to save her. Her life was in your hands, but you threw it away, with the willing cooperation of attorneys and judges who were as heartless as you were."
Again he had no control over the (way) she would die. Murderer?? Accordingly the attorneys, the doctors, the judges, and anyone else, who helps their loved ones escape their prison of suffering, is a murderer.. Those that kill themselves must be both murderer and victim. The denying silence on the possibility of compassion being the reason; is deafening. This kind of censored and one-sided statement, is the equivalent of lying. Note the emotionally upheaving " threw it away" he has to pretend he is angry, to get away with that one.. Tactics tactics tactics.. You can debate about assisted suicide, you can try to figure out whether some one wants to die or not,. But nothing is more definite and true; then that her suffering is over. Her husband ended it for her
Statement
"Some have demanded that I apologize to you for calling you a murderer. Not only will I not apologize, I will repeat it again. Your decision to have Terri dehydrated to death was a decision to kill her."
The decision to kill, does not make one a murderer, unless soldiers are all murderers, unless someone who kills to protect their own life, is a murderer. Again (how) she died, was not his decision. (Note how they keep repeating, banging the same thing over and over. So I am forced to keep repeating. You call him a murderer, I call you a voice for torture
Statement:
"It doesn't matter if Judge Greer said it was legal. No judge, no court, no power on earth can legitimize what you did. It makes no difference if what you did was legal in the eyes of men; it was murder in the eyes of God and of millions of your fellow Americans and countless more around the world. You are the one who owes all of us an apology"
Who legitimates what soldiers do? Who legitimates self defense? Who legitimates the death penalty? Now we are into the real reason he is writing this, to promote his God and his religion. I wonder if she would have accepted his using her suffering, to promote his religion, and create religious laws. As he belches about his God, let him remember, that his and other gods not only accept but demand real murder. How could those gods possibly be bothered by a" murder" whose reason is compassion. There are many around the world who applauded her husband's actions, and she would probably have been one of them. You owe the apology, for unsubstantiated statements about her husband, your one-sided statement never mentioning the possibility of compassion being the reason, and that are numbers of people who agree with him,. You owe him an apology for the demonization of him, and other assorted filthy tactics
Statement:
"Your actions offend us. Not only have you killed Terri and deeply wounded her family, but you have disgraced our nation, "
Nonsense
Statement:
"betrayed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and undermined the principles that hold us together as a civilized society."
Religion has never made anyone civilized, it is the excuse for everything else. Human compassion and understanding, are what make a civilized society.
Statement:
"You have offended those who struggle on a daily basis to care for loved ones who are dying, and who sometimes have to make the very legitimate decision to discontinue futile treatment."
More emotional manipulating. Hopefully they are struggling to care for their loved ones, because of their love and compassion. If and when that is the case, someone else's differing idea about what is best for their loved ones should not offend them. It is their duty to be offended however, if they are Christian. And why is a decision to discontinue treatment (which you conveniently call futile and very legitimate) not murder? They are not dead until they are dead. discontinuing the treatment brings on death before it would have otherwise come, so discontinuing the treatment is causing the death; those terrible murderers
Statement:
"You have offended them by trying to confuse Terri's circumstances with theirs. Terri's case was not one of judging treatment to be worthless -- which is sometimes the case; rather, it was about judging a life to be worthless, which is never the case."
He was not trying to confuse anyone, you are. He was simply trying to end his wife's life. Of course her case was not the same as others,. He was not judging her as worthless (as the priest is deviously intimating) it was a rational and compassionate decision that the minimal amount of life she had, was not worth the varying kinds of suffering that kind of life caused. He was not acting against her, he was acting for her. If he was the terrible character that you are trying to make of him, he would have taken her home to care for her and by underhanded means shortly ended her life
Statement:
"You have made your mark on history, but sadly, it is an ugly stain. In the name of millions around the world, I call on you today to embrace a life of repentance, and to ask forgiveness from the Lord, who holds the lives of each of us in His hands."
So that's why there is so much suffering pain and death, " the Lord, who holds the lives of each of us in His hands."
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#40309 - 03/26/06 04:20 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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sodapop
Member
Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 9486
Loc: new york
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, but more in memory of her life that ended a year ago. I don't expect this to change anyone's mind, but I still think an eye witness to her last days deserves to be read.
2)you're a jerk!
_________________________
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#40310 - 03/26/06 06:10 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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StarlightAngel
Member
Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
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Originally posted by Xuxan:
Donna - Your family evidently reached a consensus and your father did leave a living will and did receive "comfort care. That makes an enormous difference. What your family did was humane no matter how difficult it was. Terri died without her family reaching consensus, without a living will, and without comfort care in the belief that she could no longer feel pain. I think that is inhumane.
from pavone's letter:
Your actions offend us. Not only have you killed Terri and deeply wounded her family, but you have disgraced our nation, betrayed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and undermined the principles that hold us together as a civilized society.
Originally posted by Xuxan:
I'm not posting this to open up discussion about Terri Schiavo,
Terri's life is over, but the issues her way of dying has raised have not been resolved.
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#40311 - 03/26/06 06:22 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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SteveGIMP
Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 7672
Loc: The Great Lakes State
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Hi Karen! (You go girl) 
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#40312 - 03/26/06 06:24 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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jerseychick_dup1
Member
Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 819
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Why should Susan let it go?? If it's important to her than more power to her!!
this has nothing to do with th Sciavo case but I still get angry when I think of OJ getting let off and it's been over ten years~some cases just get to you..
BTW if anyone cares, Michal Sciavo is going to be on dateline tonight.
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#40313 - 03/26/06 07:07 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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StarlightAngel
Member
Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
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hi steve! 
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#40314 - 03/26/06 11:35 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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candra
Member
Registered: 05/17/00
Posts: 2877
Loc: Ripon, CA US
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Originally posted by StarlightAngel:
:rolleyes: please...
let it go, susan, let it go.
Seriously, this is old news and there's no need to dredge it up. Many people make these decisions daily. Let the lady rest in peace.
Candy
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#40315 - 03/26/06 11:59 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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cass
Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3505
Loc: WA
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why would a discussion interfere with her resting in peace? i think the issue needs to be discussed. leave terri's name off it and the issue remains. she died a horrible death. anybody who opposes lethal injection for murderers ought to wonder why she had to die that way.
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#40316 - 03/27/06 10:13 AM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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ladyheart
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 3392
Loc: on a pathway, somewhat smooth,...
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Cass, you know that I respect your opinions and I agree that "discussion" of end of life options are critical for everyone, regardless of whether one has a disability or not. Living wills, medical power of attorney, DNR orders etc should all be in place for each of us. Our family, our spouses, even our close friends should be informed of what we have decided we want, so there is no doubt, no confusion, and above all no guilt once those decisions and wishes have been carried out.
For me, I have to believe that my father "died" peacefully, and not the "horrible" death as described, by the process of "comfort care" and lack of hydration during his final days at hospice.
take care,
Donna
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#40317 - 03/27/06 11:01 AM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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Lizbv
Member
Registered: 08/27/00
Posts: 5658
Loc: Who Dey!
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Why can't we talk about it, its in the news. who's going to read the books?
And which one do you want to read? Husbands........or parents?
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#40318 - 03/27/06 11:25 AM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
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StarlightAngel
Member
Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
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none.
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I mean, cmon, must we competete with a damn book? lol
