#40304 - 03/26/06 11:06 AM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
StarlightAngel
Member
Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
|
:rolleyes: please...
let it go, susan, let it go.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40305 - 03/26/06 12:12 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
ladyheart
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 3392
Loc: on a pathway, somewhat smooth,...
|
Susan, you have a right to post anything you want here of course, as we all do, but I agree with Karen totally on this one, let it go, it only dredges up more "pain" for those of us who made similiar decisions for our loved ones.
My father spent his final last 10 days in a hospice facility, prior to that 3 weeks in the hospital, no brain activity, no chance of recovering. No life support, he breathed, he snored, just on IV for fluids, we had a choice to make, a hard choice, a painful choice, to put a feeding tube in and keep him "alive" in that unresponsive state or let him "go" and to do that we stop all IV and all futile care, he was given "comfort care" and we spent every day with him and watched the process up front and personal. In my father's case, the specifics of course are different, by the description by the priest of the "dying" process we witnessed was far from what he wrote. The Catholic nun that took wonderful care of my Dad, explained and comforted us all through the process, as did all the staff and dr's involved.
Would you call my mother and I "murderers" as well, do you not know how heart breaking it is to lose someone you love, but know that to "keep" them "existing" physically alone, when who "they" really were, their "spirit" their "soul" was already lost to us, would have been a truly selfish act IMO.
You can say, that yes in our case, my Dad had a living will and his wishes were "known" in advance and that makes the cases not comparable.
Yet,it's the "guilt" such statements like Father Pavone intend to inflict on folks who may face this kind of decision down the road that makes me angry. It's not about Michael and Terry at all.
I hope and pray my mother does not read or hear his statement.
Donna
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40307 - 03/26/06 01:51 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
*ALBERT-1*
Member
Registered: 06/17/00
Posts: 3598
Loc: East Point,Georgia, USA
|
Father Pavone is a priest, not a doctor. He is speaking strictly from an emotional and religious point of view, and he is prejudiced by the belief that life should be prolonged as long as possible. He is either unwilling or unable to judge the final autopsy report with any degree of accuracy. It would conflict with what he feels is his spiritual duty.
Terry was not only brain dead, but blind at the time of her death. Her brain had turned to mush. When she presumably "gazed" at Michael Schiavo and the others, it was not the look of a woman who sees but is unable to communicate. It was the reflex action of the eyes. And she could not have been aware of anything that she was feeling. That is all there is to it.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40308 - 03/26/06 02:37 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
I
Member
Registered: 02/28/00
Posts: 2513
|
Xuxan
Your Statement:
"I'm not posting this to open up discussion about Terri Schiavo, but more in memory of her life that ended a year ago."
That is obviously much more than an attempt to memorize her. You might have talked a little about her character, her life, etc. if the intent was to memorize her.
How disgusting of this priest, to take advantage of the situation and suffering of Terri Schiavo,
to promote his religion.
Statement:
"A year ago this week, I stood by the bedside of the woman you married and promised to love in good times and bad, in sickness and health"
To end the suffering of someone you love, is an act of love, unless they do not want their life ended. If there was absolutely no way for anyone to find out what her desire was in that condition, then someone has to try to figure out what she might have wanted. It certainly should not be a priest, they will not give you her decision they will give you their religions decision. They are not interested in what she wants, they are interested in what they and their imagined God wants. The same seems to be true of her parents.
Not only a loving person but any person with Common decency, when trying to figure out what she might want, can only try to figure that out by asking themselves if they would want to be Alive under those circumstances. And take into consideration that There are people who want to commit suicide and some who do commit suicide, whose circumstances were far less severe then hers. People in her condition cannot reply or possibly even understand any question.. But how many of those who are nearest to her condition , would say yes they want to continue living in that condition.
Statement:
"She was enduring a very bad time, because she hadn't been given food or drink in nearly two weeks. And you were the one insisting that she continue to be deprived of food and water, right up to her death."
She was living a very bad life, that is conveniently ignored. It is because of people like the priest, that hospitals are limited to allowing a lingering suffering death, rather than a quick and easy one. Convicts are allowed a more humane death, then people in Terri's condition
Statement:
"I watched her face for hours on end, right up to moments before her last breath."
I will guarantee, that he did not watch her face for even one continuous hour
Statement:
"If you saw her too, and noticed what her eyes were doing, you know that to describe her last agony as peaceful is a lie."
Others watched what her eyes were doing, and others watched others and what their eyes were doing when they were doing. Let the priest tell us what her eyes were doing, and what he would like to pretend that it meant . But he would rather use the fear of the unknown and let you fearfully Imagen what it might have meant. He gains much more that way
So all the medical profession is lying? That stated by someone who's foundations and expertise is lying. If her death was agony, it is not the fault of her husband that that is the only way they were allowed to end her suffering. The priest is more to be blamed for that the her husband, because he promotes the garbage about life above all else, which is his real reason for his letter
Statement:
"This week, tens of millions of Americans will remember those agonizing days last year, and will scratch their heads trying to figure out why you didn't simply let Terri's mom, dad, and siblings take care of her, as they were willing to do. They offered you, again and again, the option to simply let them care for Terri, without asking anything of you."
That tens of millions of Americans, will have varying opinions on the matter, he has no business speaking for them, or for Terri
Easy talk, they will take care of her. Where will they get the money, and the time, and the energy? Those who take care of her will act one way when the cameras are on, and another way when the cameras are off. What happens when she becomes to much of a burden, both physically and economically? The kind of care and attention she will get when those things change, will deteriorate. I feel bad for anyone who is under the care of parents or anyone else, who are intent on keeping anyone alive under those circumstances. It is cruel, insensitive, and non- loving...who will know if they are being abused or neglected? They are not living a life, they are nothing but a sensory organ. Her parents are more concerned about their religious beliefs, then their daughter..
They were asking something of her husband. They were asking him to continue to continually know of and accept her suffering. And if she did tell him that she did not want to exist in that condition, then he would have been prevented from carrying out his promise to her
Statement:
"But you refused and continued to insist that Terri's feeding be stopped. She had no terminal illness. She was simply a disabled woman who needed extra care that you weren't willing to give"
What a filthy devious statement. She was not simply disabled. She needed a lot more, than extra care. Her husband's desire to end her suffering, to fulfill his promise (if given) is twisted around into nothing but a lack of desire to give her care. Let the priest prove that, before stating it. He is doing as they always do, defaming and demonizing her husband like they do to anyone who does not go along with what they want
Statement:
"I speak to you today on behalf of the tens of millions of Americans who still wonder why. I speak to you today to express their anger, their dismay, their outraged astonishment at your behavior in the midst of this tragedy. Most people will wonder about these questions in silence, but as one of only a few people who were eyewitnesses to Terri's dehydration, I have to speak."
We know you speak, and we know the real reason you speak. You have given the number of those supposedly against assisted suicide,, it is probably as fictitious as your description of her husband. Your looking into her eyes and deciding what it meant, is no more reliable than anyone else looking into her eyes and deciding what it meant. You have probably seen the reflection of your own desires, in her eyes. You do not have to speak, you want to speak. And you want to use her misfortune to promote your religion, under the guise that you are feeling so terrible for her
Statement:
"I have spoken to you before, not in person, but through mass media. Before Terri's feeding tube was removed for the last time, I appealed to you with respect, asking you not to continue on the road you were pursuing, urging you to reconsider your decisions, in the light of the damage you were doing. I invited you to talk. But you did not respond."
repetition = pounding over and over again, into the minds of those you wish to control Tactic after tactic, no honesty
Statement:
"Then, after Terri died, I called her death a killing, and I called you a murderer because you knew -- as we all did -- that ceasing to feed Terri would kill her. We watched, but you had the power to save her. Her life was in your hands, but you threw it away, with the willing cooperation of attorneys and judges who were as heartless as you were."
Again he had no control over the (way) she would die. Murderer?? Accordingly the attorneys, the doctors, the judges, and anyone else, who helps their loved ones escape their prison of suffering, is a murderer.. Those that kill themselves must be both murderer and victim. The denying silence on the possibility of compassion being the reason; is deafening. This kind of censored and one-sided statement, is the equivalent of lying. Note the emotionally upheaving " threw it away" he has to pretend he is angry, to get away with that one.. Tactics tactics tactics.. You can debate about assisted suicide, you can try to figure out whether some one wants to die or not,. But nothing is more definite and true; then that her suffering is over. Her husband ended it for her
Statement
"Some have demanded that I apologize to you for calling you a murderer. Not only will I not apologize, I will repeat it again. Your decision to have Terri dehydrated to death was a decision to kill her."
The decision to kill, does not make one a murderer, unless soldiers are all murderers, unless someone who kills to protect their own life, is a murderer. Again (how) she died, was not his decision. (Note how they keep repeating, banging the same thing over and over. So I am forced to keep repeating. You call him a murderer, I call you a voice for torture
Statement:
"It doesn't matter if Judge Greer said it was legal. No judge, no court, no power on earth can legitimize what you did. It makes no difference if what you did was legal in the eyes of men; it was murder in the eyes of God and of millions of your fellow Americans and countless more around the world. You are the one who owes all of us an apology"
Who legitimates what soldiers do? Who legitimates self defense? Who legitimates the death penalty? Now we are into the real reason he is writing this, to promote his God and his religion. I wonder if she would have accepted his using her suffering, to promote his religion, and create religious laws. As he belches about his God, let him remember, that his and other gods not only accept but demand real murder. How could those gods possibly be bothered by a" murder" whose reason is compassion. There are many around the world who applauded her husband's actions, and she would probably have been one of them. You owe the apology, for unsubstantiated statements about her husband, your one-sided statement never mentioning the possibility of compassion being the reason, and that are numbers of people who agree with him,. You owe him an apology for the demonization of him, and other assorted filthy tactics
Statement:
"Your actions offend us. Not only have you killed Terri and deeply wounded her family, but you have disgraced our nation, "
Nonsense
Statement:
"betrayed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and undermined the principles that hold us together as a civilized society."
Religion has never made anyone civilized, it is the excuse for everything else. Human compassion and understanding, are what make a civilized society.
Statement:
"You have offended those who struggle on a daily basis to care for loved ones who are dying, and who sometimes have to make the very legitimate decision to discontinue futile treatment."
More emotional manipulating. Hopefully they are struggling to care for their loved ones, because of their love and compassion. If and when that is the case, someone else's differing idea about what is best for their loved ones should not offend them. It is their duty to be offended however, if they are Christian. And why is a decision to discontinue treatment (which you conveniently call futile and very legitimate) not murder? They are not dead until they are dead. discontinuing the treatment brings on death before it would have otherwise come, so discontinuing the treatment is causing the death; those terrible murderers
Statement:
"You have offended them by trying to confuse Terri's circumstances with theirs. Terri's case was not one of judging treatment to be worthless -- which is sometimes the case; rather, it was about judging a life to be worthless, which is never the case."
He was not trying to confuse anyone, you are. He was simply trying to end his wife's life. Of course her case was not the same as others,. He was not judging her as worthless (as the priest is deviously intimating) it was a rational and compassionate decision that the minimal amount of life she had, was not worth the varying kinds of suffering that kind of life caused. He was not acting against her, he was acting for her. If he was the terrible character that you are trying to make of him, he would have taken her home to care for her and by underhanded means shortly ended her life
Statement:
"You have made your mark on history, but sadly, it is an ugly stain. In the name of millions around the world, I call on you today to embrace a life of repentance, and to ask forgiveness from the Lord, who holds the lives of each of us in His hands."
So that's why there is so much suffering pain and death, " the Lord, who holds the lives of each of us in His hands."
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40309 - 03/26/06 04:20 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
sodapop
Member
Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 9486
Loc: new york
|
, but more in memory of her life that ended a year ago. I don't expect this to change anyone's mind, but I still think an eye witness to her last days deserves to be read.
2)you're a jerk!
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40310 - 03/26/06 06:10 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
StarlightAngel
Member
Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
|
Originally posted by Xuxan:
Donna - Your family evidently reached a consensus and your father did leave a living will and did receive "comfort care. That makes an enormous difference. What your family did was humane no matter how difficult it was. Terri died without her family reaching consensus, without a living will, and without comfort care in the belief that she could no longer feel pain. I think that is inhumane.
from pavone's letter:
Your actions offend us. Not only have you killed Terri and deeply wounded her family, but you have disgraced our nation, betrayed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and undermined the principles that hold us together as a civilized society.
Originally posted by Xuxan:
I'm not posting this to open up discussion about Terri Schiavo,
Terri's life is over, but the issues her way of dying has raised have not been resolved.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40311 - 03/26/06 06:22 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
SteveGIMP
Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 7672
Loc: The Great Lakes State
|
Hi Karen! (You go girl) 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40312 - 03/26/06 06:24 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
jerseychick_dup1
Member
Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 819
|
Why should Susan let it go?? If it's important to her than more power to her!!
this has nothing to do with th Sciavo case but I still get angry when I think of OJ getting let off and it's been over ten years~some cases just get to you..
BTW if anyone cares, Michal Sciavo is going to be on dateline tonight.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40313 - 03/26/06 07:07 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
StarlightAngel
Member
Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
|
hi steve! 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40314 - 03/26/06 11:35 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
candra
Member
Registered: 05/17/00
Posts: 2877
Loc: Ripon, CA US
|
Originally posted by StarlightAngel:
:rolleyes: please...
let it go, susan, let it go.
Seriously, this is old news and there's no need to dredge it up. Many people make these decisions daily. Let the lady rest in peace.
Candy
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40315 - 03/26/06 11:59 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
cass
Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3505
Loc: WA
|
why would a discussion interfere with her resting in peace? i think the issue needs to be discussed. leave terri's name off it and the issue remains. she died a horrible death. anybody who opposes lethal injection for murderers ought to wonder why she had to die that way.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40316 - 03/27/06 10:13 AM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
ladyheart
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 3392
Loc: on a pathway, somewhat smooth,...
|
Cass, you know that I respect your opinions and I agree that "discussion" of end of life options are critical for everyone, regardless of whether one has a disability or not. Living wills, medical power of attorney, DNR orders etc should all be in place for each of us. Our family, our spouses, even our close friends should be informed of what we have decided we want, so there is no doubt, no confusion, and above all no guilt once those decisions and wishes have been carried out.
For me, I have to believe that my father "died" peacefully, and not the "horrible" death as described, by the process of "comfort care" and lack of hydration during his final days at hospice.
take care,
Donna
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40317 - 03/27/06 11:01 AM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
Lizbv
Member
Registered: 08/27/00
Posts: 5658
Loc: Who Dey!
|
Why can't we talk about it, its in the news. who's going to read the books?
And which one do you want to read? Husbands........or parents?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40318 - 03/27/06 11:25 AM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
StarlightAngel
Member
Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
|
none.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40320 - 03/27/06 03:18 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
maggieodae
Junior Member
Registered: 03/27/06
Posts: 5
Loc: USA
|
Three months ago I stood beside the bed of my dying husband. No dumb nitwit was even going to suggest starving him to death. Michael is/was an idiot!How stupid and cowardly and evil does this world have to get?
Life isn't always perfect, but it is LIFE until God say's it is not!
Father Pavone is right on. Been there done that.
I also was in coma when I was a child. Yeah! Drooling brainless idiot to the likes of the killer crowd. Thank the good lord Michael and dumb ass company was NOT in charge.
You go girl. Make the real brainless idiots think about it.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40321 - 03/27/06 03:22 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
|
maggieodae - sorry for the loss of your husband 
But I personally would not want to live in a persistent, permenant vegatative state - and have said so in writing.
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40322 - 03/27/06 03:25 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
SteveGIMP
Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 7672
Loc: The Great Lakes State
|
God is a myth.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40323 - 03/27/06 03:30 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
Wabi
Member
Registered: 06/06/00
Posts: 23858
Loc:
|
You better hope he is....
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40324 - 03/27/06 03:34 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
maggieodae
Junior Member
Registered: 03/27/06
Posts: 5
Loc: USA
|
I personally was glad to be in a vegitative state and alive regardless of what the nincompoops thought.Just beacause it wasn't pretty nor according to the average persons ideals, didn't make it a life less worthy.
OH! And yeah! God does exist...but those who think they are their own creator don't get it. They will in the end.
Everyone dies, and everyone has a choice about Eternity. God sends no one to hell. There are more than enough self absorbed idiots who send themselves there.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40325 - 03/27/06 03:40 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
SteveGIMP
Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 7672
Loc: The Great Lakes State
|
Originally posted by maggieodae:
God sends no one to hell.
That's because hell is a myth too.
There are more than enough self absorbed idiots who send themselves there.
Sorry for your loss.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40326 - 03/27/06 03:55 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
maggieodae
Junior Member
Registered: 03/27/06
Posts: 5
Loc: USA
|
Well, after 44 years of fighting the good fight, the loss was not a loss.It was one grace after another, regardless of what the cowards of this world say.
God and heaven and hell do exit. My beloved had the good moral sense to keep on fighting until God said enough. Yes, I looked into his eye's, held him, loved him and watched him die in Gods good time... and it was a lot longer than one stinking hour.
No...death and suffering is not pretty. But the world must be painfree and perfect crowd, will never get it. Mores the pity for them. In the end they lose it all.
The nitwits of the world gave up on him when he was 19. God had other plans. We have 3 great kids, 3 grandchildren, and one G Grandchild. He was a better man by far than the Michael Schivos of this world.And he lived with dignity and purpose to the very end.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40327 - 03/27/06 04:07 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
|
OK, if the "loss was not a loss" then why the hostility? 
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40328 - 03/27/06 07:07 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
maggieodae
Junior Member
Registered: 03/27/06
Posts: 5
Loc: USA
|
I do not consider it hostility...I consider it instructing the ignorant. If I had a nickle for all the yahoo's who said : "Oh, it's so sad, no quality of life...how terrible, how unfair"...I would be rich.
Did I mention my children inherited this rather dibilitating problem. I happen to love them and see their life as worth while too. I happen to like my crippled old body that I have been trapped in since age 8.
I do not like all the whiners who want to say life isn't worth living unless you are healthy and viable according to their standards. I happen to love my cousin who lived in a vegitative state for 20 years. She gave more to the world than all the "Pretty boy/girl" whiners ever have. Unless you have walked a mile in theose shoes and then some, I would suppose you might consider it hostility. Let me tell you...Ain't no one gonna take out my loved ones with their false compassion.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40329 - 03/27/06 07:26 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
maggieodae
Junior Member
Registered: 03/27/06
Posts: 5
Loc: USA
|
Even when not motivated by a selfish refusal to be burdened with the life of someone who is suffering, euthanasia must be called a false mercy, and indeed a disturbing "perversion" of mercy. True "compassion" leads to sharing another's pain; it does not kill the person whose suffering we cannot bear. Moreover, the act of euthanasia appears all the more perverse if it is carried out by those, like relatives, who are supposed to treat a family member with patience and love, or by those, such as doctors, who by virtue of their specific profession are supposed to care for the sick person even in the most painful terminal stages.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40330 - 03/27/06 07:27 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
Johnboy 64
Member
Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 15944
Loc: a nice place
|
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40331 - 03/27/06 09:22 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
candra
Member
Registered: 05/17/00
Posts: 2877
Loc: Ripon, CA US
|
I'm not likely to be presented with this decision in my lifetime. My parents both died quickly and were not on life support. My husband lost his father when he was 13 and his mother has a living will. My husband (and I) also have living wills.
But let's just assume for one minute that those living wills did not exist. We all have had discussions with one another about our wishes (not unlike Terry S). In the end we all do not want to be kept alive in a permanent veg state. I could live with any kind of physical dis, but take away any part of my brain function, and well I don't want to live. Coincidentally this also happens to be the wishes of my husband and mil. In any case, if the living will did not exist I would have no problem at all taking out a feeding tube if it was determined that either one of these relatives was brain dead or severely brain injured, because that is what they both want. I would hope they would do the same for me.
FWIW, if I was in Michael's shoes, I would have done the exact same thing.
As for the parents vs the hubby in the Schiavo case, I have to side with the hubby. Let's be honest, kids don't tell their parents *everything* (especially when they are in their 20s), but some parents think they do (and profess to know their 20-something child's wishes because of a comment offered after after Sunday school in the 6th grade). People change (especially kids and teens and 20-somethings). The parents may think they know what their daughter wanted, but it's only because they think hubby doesn't know. Daughter communicated with hubby. It's only natural. You share lots of stuff with your spouse that you wouldn't share with your parents.
Candy
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40333 - 03/27/06 10:07 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
|
Originally posted by maggieodae:
True "compassion" leads to sharing another's pain; it does not kill the person whose suffering we cannot bear.
Would true compassion ignore that request?
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40334 - 03/27/06 10:14 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
SteveGIMP
Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 7672
Loc: The Great Lakes State
|
True compassion can also mean putting aside our selfish desire to hold onto loved ones, and to just let them go.
There are worse things than being dead.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40336 - 03/27/06 11:50 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
cass
Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3505
Loc: WA
|
Originally posted by ladyheart:
Cass, you know that I respect your opinions and I agree that "discussion" of end of life options are critical for everyone, regardless of whether one has a disability or not. Living wills, medical power of attorney, DNR orders etc should all be in place for each of us. Our family, our spouses, even our close friends should be informed of what we have decided we want, so there is no doubt, no confusion, and above all no guilt once those decisions and wishes have been carried out.
For me, I have to believe that my father "died" peacefully, and not the "horrible" death as described, by the process of "comfort care" and lack of hydration during his final days at hospice.
take care,
Donna
My brother died in a hospital. The last days of his life he didn't communicate either. We think the cancer got to his brain. He was restless and the doctors advised a morphine drip. This was 18 yrs ago. I hope they have better things now. Anyway, he was not dehydrated either.
I just cannot imagine watching any loved one, esp. my child, being dehydrated to death against my will. I believe it is inhumane not even to allow some ice, some popsicle, if not IV fluids. Starvation seems hard (although ultimately that's what finally kills many cancer patients), but total dehydration seems cruel.
I am sure whatever happened with your dad was done with compassion and kindness. I'm not so sure in other cases and I guess you know my thoughts on this one. There were just too many conflicts in the guardian's life, too little evidence of wishes and too many legalities ignored. It just doesn't feel right. To me.
If we, as a society, are going to, on the one hand, scream about lethal injection being cruel for murderers, how can we, as a society, condone total dehydration (which takes 2 weeks, not 2 minutes) of people we deem have no quality of life?
I have a friend who had triplets. They were fine at birth, but then around 1 month all three contracted something (I can't recall the name right now). It happened in hours, going from a fever to an emergency life and death situation. Two are fine now. A year later, the third is on a vent and cannot move her arms, yet moves her legs. Her brain activity, well, they really don't know much. The virus affected her brain stem but her higher functions? Really unknown. Anyway, there were a few doctors who gently encouraged pulling the vent. My friend didn't. She has 2 babies at home and a 4 yr old. I think people in her situation need encouragement and support, not the move toward euthanization we seem to be experiencing.
I know there is no real analogy between an end of life situation and a baby. But there is a very real one between a disabled baby and disabled adults who we can never be sure what they feel. Reading The Diving Bell and the Butterfly is proof, to me, that our perceptions are not necessarily right.
Take care, Donna. I know you had a hard time.
BTW, in reference to Schiavo books, don't forget Mark Fuhrman's.  Unless you believe he has a bias. I haven't read it, but someone mentioning O.J. made me think of it.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40337 - 03/28/06 10:57 AM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
StarlightAngel
Member
Registered: 04/25/01
Posts: 11013
Loc: a box on the table
|
hang on - is what u are objecting to the decision itself or the method?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40338 - 03/28/06 01:21 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
I
Member
Registered: 02/28/00
Posts: 2513
|
maggieodae
Your statement:
"Three months ago I stood beside the bed of my dying husband. No dumb nitwit was even going to suggest starving him to death. Michael is/was an idiot!How stupid and cowardly and evil does this world have to get? "
Starving someone to death is never the suggestion, it is the only legal possibility at the moment. I am sure everyone would prefer that the dying would be easy and quick, except you of course. Who is the one who is supposed to be so brave, you or your husband?
Your statement:
"Life isn't always perfect, but it is LIFE until God say's it is not!"
That is putting it very mildly, life is ruthless. So God says the life should end, by suffocating people in mud slides, roasting and suffocating them in fires, infesting them with diseases, programming the genes, accidents, explosions, birth defects, etc. etc. etc. etc. which God is making that decision, and where is his love and compassion? I think it best to let those doing the suffering, make the decision.. Life for its own sake no matter the amount of suffering, is abuse of the one doing the suffering
Your statement:
"Father Pavone is right on. Been there done that.
" I also was in coma when I was a child. Yeah! Drooling brainless idiot to the likes of the killer crowd. Thank the good lord Michael and dumb ass company was NOT in charge."
And what if you had stayed in the coma, and continued to deteriorate? The dumb ass, killer crowd, doesn't want anybody's life ended simply because they are in a coma. The question is the length of time and whether the person is improving or deteriorating.. Did You thank your good lord, for the coma? You have certainly thanked him for you husband's suffering; it is so graceful. Not quite as graceful as being in hell though
Your statement:
"You go girl. Make the real brainless idiots think about it."
We are waiting for you to start thinking, about the person who is in that situation, rather than your imagined God. The only one you have any right to keep in that situation, is yourself.
Your statement:
"I personally was glad to be in a vegitative state and alive regardless of what the nincompoops thought."
bullshit.
Your statement:
" Just beacause it wasn't pretty nor according to the average persons ideals, didn't make it a life less worthy. "
Where did you get the idiotic idea, that anyone wants anyone's life to be ended because they are ugly?
Your statement:
"OH! And yeah! God does exist...but those who think they are their own creator don't get it. They will in the end. "
Many people like you, said many gods existed. They were wrong,as you are are wrong. W e do not have to wait till the end, to know what is obvious. It is only people like yourself with your imagined gods and afterlife, that have to be frightened about imagined happenings after you are dead
Your statement:
"Everyone dies, and everyone has a choice about Eternity. God sends no one to hell. There are more than enough self absorbed idiots who send themselves there."
You are as self absorbed as anyone else. Who could be more self absorbed, then someone so concerned about existing for eternity? No one has any choice about eternity, including your imagined God.. Make some sense. If your God created a hell, if your God decided that those who did not conform would go to that hell, your God has set up the mechanism that puts the there. No one would ever volunteer to go there, and only your God would be evil enough to send anyone them.
Your statement:
"Well, after 44 years of fighting the good fight, the loss was not a loss.It was one grace after another, regardless of what the cowards of this world say. "
It is the law of nature for its creatures to flee from, and try to prevent their suffering. The fleeing is for the creatures safety and well-being. It is only perverted thinking, to thank that suffering has anything to do with grace . That perverted kind of thinking, is an attempt to hide the evil of your concocted God from yourself and others
Your statement:
"God and heaven and hell do exit. My beloved had the good moral sense to keep on fighting until God said enough. Yes, I looked into his eye's, held him, loved him and watched him die in Gods good time... and it was a lot longer than one stinking hour."
They do? All of them? Allah, Apollo, Zeus, Odin, Mog Ruith, Ra, Buddha, Isis, Thor, Amun, Baal, Hurakan, Pele, Kuan Ti, Krishna, and an infinite number of other Gods
Or conveniently, does just your God exist? The others must still exist also, because gods cannot be wiped out.; Unless of course they are just lies, in which case they can just be ignored out of existence, like you have ignored Allah out of existence
What was your beloved one fighting? Was he fighting your gods wishes that he be dead? Or was he fighting for his own desires? That is the ultimate morality, isn't it. How Unfeeling, how un--compassionate, how evil, for you and your concocted God; to make him go through that for so long. It was not his moral sense to keep on going, it was a contemplate lack of choice
Your statement:
" No...death and suffering is not pretty. But the world must be painfree and perfect crowd, will never get it. Mores the pity for them. In the end they lose it all. "
No evil never is pretty. Those , " But the world must be painfree and perfect crowd, will never get it." You mean those like yourself, who imagine and seek a heaven that is pain-free and perfect? In the end you need and want nothing
Your statement:
"The nitwits of the world gave up on him when he was 19. God had other plans. We have 3 great kids, 3 grandchildren, and one G Grandchild. He was a better man by far than the Michael Schivos of this world.And he lived with dignity and purpose to the very end."
Glory hallelujah, now doesn't that just make everything all right. That could have all been had, without his suffering. It is like saying it doesn't matter that someone suffered starving to death, because we have plenty of food now. He was no better than anybody else. Stop glorifying him to candy coat your willingness to let him suffer, and pretend that that is what he wanted
Wabi
your statement:
"You better hope he is"
And you better hope, that Allah and all the rest of the liar created gods are myths
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40339 - 03/28/06 04:32 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
cass
Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3505
Loc: WA
|
dr. star, i was throwing out the question. what are the objections? if we are going to determine some people's lives are not worthy, why don't we use lethal injection? i have my own theory on it.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40340 - 03/28/06 05:14 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
candra
Member
Registered: 05/17/00
Posts: 2877
Loc: Ripon, CA US
|
I don't really think it has to do with folks deermining if someones life is worthy or not Cass, at least from how I see it. It's about respecting someones wishes (in the Schiavo case) and trying to ease the pain of a dying relative (such in Donna's case).
There are two things that really stand out in the Schiavo case for me:
1. Teryy told her hubby she did not want to be kept alive by artificail means if she was brain dead (after seeing a movie on the subject).
2. She was in a persistent vegative state for over a dozen years (i forgot how many). There was no progress, and of course her parents hoped there would be progress and wanted to see that in little things she did everyday, (and I think that is normal) but the truth is there wasn't any hope.
Now of course your cases are different, as are probably those of millions of other folks. I think everybody has the right to determine what type of life they want to live and their relatives should respect that choice. If no advance directives exist, I think the best thing anybody can do is to try and do what that person would want.
As for this discussion. I just said it was pointless because we've hashed it out time and time again here. If we want to discuss end of life choices, then fine, but I say leave the whole Schiavo case out of it.
Candy
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40341 - 03/28/06 05:49 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
|
Originally posted by candra:
As for this discussion. I just said it was pointless because we've hashed it out time and time again here. If we want to discuss end of life choices, then fine, but I say leave the whole Schiavo case out of it.
Candy 
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40342 - 03/28/06 11:07 PM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
cass
Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 3505
Loc: WA
|
i have tried to leave my posts generic; in fact I believe i said in my first post it was best to leave schiavo out of it. but candy, in your last post you mentioned schiavo specifics and then said you didn't want to rehash the schiavo case.
since you mentioned it, though, i'm going to respond. it is not clear that terri's wishes were known. i don't think you've read court testimony.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#40343 - 03/29/06 11:25 AM
Re: An Open letter to Michael Sciavo on the one year anniversary of Terri Schiavo's death
|
candra
Member
Registered: 05/17/00
Posts: 2877
Loc: Ripon, CA US
|
Originally posted by cass: i have tried to leave my posts generic; in fact I believe i said in my first post it was best to leave schiavo out of it. but candy, in your last post you mentioned schiavo specifics and then said you didn't want to rehash the schiavo case.
Candy
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
I don't think I was that non-hostile in my first 5 posts, and that is saying a lot 
