#201183 - 02/02/12 09:54 AM
Arianism
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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This has nothing whatsoever to do with the Nazi idea of Aryanism, by the way. Arianism was a Christian notion dating from the very beginning of the faith, and was widely accepted in the Gothic (eastern European) parts of the world.
The core of Arianism belief was that Jesus was definitely a deity but was separate and below God in the hierarchy of heaven. That meant that they didn't accept the concept of the Trinity, or that Jesus was actually a part of God himself. They didn't direct their worship to Jesus but rather solely to God.
The Arians based their belief on several statements by Jesus in the Gospels where he says that God is greater than himself and that only God is worthy of worship. Even though that notion was strongly suppressed by the early church, it's still a topic that gets debated by some religious scholars.
Arianism was declared a heresy by the first council of Nicaea in 325 and its followers were treated very brutally. There were actually major armed conflicts between the mainstream church and followers of Arianism in the early years of the first milleneum before many of them were killed and they were defeated.
Although I personally question whether Jesus was a deity, my beliefs are closer to those of the Arians than the traditional church. So what do you think? Does anyone want to discuss whether the Arians had a valid point or whether the mainstream church was correct in suppressing them?
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#201190 - 02/02/12 01:06 PM
Re: Arianism
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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My belief is Jesus is equal to God in the execution of their eternal plans. He is second to the God of heaven when He became man also and God and man at the same time because the bible says Emanual is His name..God with us. So He is the second member of the trinity and the Holy Spirit of God is the third member and is an individual and seperate entity of the trinity.
Jesus taught us to pray to the Heavenly Father the power of the trinity, in His name, because Jesus became our High Priest allowing us into the throne of God Himself. He gave us His same access to the Father by His sacrifice for mankind. This is what I read from the bible which God gave us as His Word. So I think the Arians were in error in their beliefs in some respects.
Paul
Edited by Paulwa_dup1 (02/02/12 01:09 PM)
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#201739 - 03/10/12 11:15 PM
Re: Arianism
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paul I
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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I consider the concept of the Trinity as one of those technicalities that really doesn't matter in the long run. It can be debated successfully from both a pro and con position and is important enough to some people that I imagine new churches have been formed because of it.
I personally consider the Holy spirit an energy that encompasses God and Jesus and many others in history, perhaps including all true believers in a greater power.
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"...only the shadow knows"
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#201779 - 03/12/12 09:53 PM
Re: Arianism
[Re: Paul I]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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According to Jesus God the Father alone is worthy of worship. Jesus died to become our high priest and mediator with God because God is too holy for man to approach Him in any way. Since Jesus lived a perfect life and became the lamb of God to sacrifice for the sins of all mankind. When Jesus rose from the dead and went back to the Father He took on His role as mediator and high priest so when God looked at man He only saw Jesus perfection and sacrifice and so man could now come to God for forgiveness. Without Jesus we all would be lost in our sins with no contact with God. I think there will come a time when Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit will have equal rolls. The christian church who has the Holy Spirit is the force that keeps the anti christ from appearing. When the rapture happens and the church is taken up, then the anti christ will have no one to stop him and he will work at taking over all the peoples of the world. The first way by making all people take his mark in order to live and buy and sell on this earth. There will be some who won't take the mark, the majority will be Jews I think. God claims them as His church and will protect 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. These He will make preachers to spread His word to every living person on earth but those who have taken the mark will not be saved and cannot be saved. They are forever lost.
Paul
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#201782 - 03/13/12 07:10 AM
Re: Arianism
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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Well, I didn't live back in those times and so I think that it is too bad that they were suppressed...no one likes being suppressed, do they? I am a follower of the Bible and the belief that putting man's needs before God's is not right, even though I am guilty of it myself. I think people do try to follow the teachings of the Bible...those who believe, that is.
During those times, had we allowed them to continue perhaps the people who lived back then and did suppress those believers 'felt' that there would be utter chaos if some thing was not to replace man's desires (advances in philosophy, math, science, astronomy, etc) with a more centered, more unionized, more all-for-one and one-for-all type of 'living standard' (for lack of a better word). And so christianity became that 'thing'. Good....bad? Who knows, we would have to have let things alone to find out.
More wars? less wars....who knows.
But living in this world today, having come from a teaching background and now retired, and saying that you 'relate' more to that time of history (the beliefs then) for me is like saying that you believe you can blame Christianity for the dumbing down of America....educationally, that is. And that is why you come across to me in your posts as being ....I'm not going to say. lol Anyway, I Do try to put myself in others' position but it is hard when you really believe the Bible and it's entirety. Beginning to end is Jesus story, true story of his life; he had no beginning because he was the Word. He was With God. And God wanted us to know him(Himself)...there is a reason that Genesis starts out "in the beginning"...and the entire Bible has proofs of his life, his death, his resurrection...if you wish to see it. Proofs thruout history. History Proof!
I really think that heretic like belief system would have died out anyway. Did Christianity and the Catholic Church (of which I am not...and would not become one) take away anything from the progress being made that science, or math, or anything else back then had...? I can't blame anything there.
Edited by ævory (03/13/12 07:14 AM)
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#201783 - 03/13/12 07:30 AM
Re: Arianism
[Re: ævory]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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i wonder what the Arianism belief system's consensus was concerning angels.
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#201791 - 03/15/12 08:42 AM
Re: Arianism
[Re: ghoti]
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BufGimp
Junior Member
Registered: 12/03/11
Posts: 9
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If God were part of a trinity, would not his Word, the Bible, clearly and directly tell us so?
When Jesus was baptized, a voice came out of heaven, saying: "You are my Son, the beloved."
If God were truly on earth being baptized, would he project his voice up to heaven and back so that those words could be heard on the earth?
Would that not be misleading?
Would God, "who cannot lie," do such a deceptive thing? - Luke 3:21, 22; Titus 1:1,2.
Bufgimp 
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