#197260 - 01/26/11 02:27 PM
Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Mark 16 in the New Testament recounts the resurrection of Jesus and His appearance to several of His followers. His disciples didn't believe those who claimed to have seen Him.
In verse 14, Jesus appears to the disciples and tells them off for their unbelief in what they were told and gives them their mission.
Mark 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
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Jesus then tells them the key to salvation:
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
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Okay, I've got that part covered and have been on the side of belief as long as I can remember. I call myself a believer, but apparently, I've fallen short.
Once again, I have rushed past an important part of believing and I'm afraid it's too late for me to fit the description. How do I know this? Christ's own words in this chapter of Mark have pointed it out to me.
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
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Obviously, I am NOT a believer. What now?
Edited by flicka (01/26/11 02:32 PM)
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#197265 - 01/26/11 04:19 PM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: flicka]
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ronniechoate34
Member
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
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I am sorry to hear this.
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#197268 - 01/26/11 04:48 PM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: ronniechoate34]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Ronnie, do you cast out devils, speak with new tongues, handle snakes, or heal the sick?
Personally, I can't even drink much alcohol without it hurting me, much less anything more deadly than that.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#197272 - 01/26/11 07:22 PM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: flicka]
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ronniechoate34
Member
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
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I have cast devils from me by calling on the name of Jesus.
I don't guess that I have ever drank anything poisonous except for alcohol and at that time I wasn't exactly a firm believer.
I haven't picked up any snakes. They give me the creeps.
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#197278 - 01/26/11 09:12 PM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: ronniechoate34]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Does that mean you are not a 'believer' also, or do you think these verses are not describing the average believer?
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#197279 - 01/26/11 09:18 PM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: ronniechoate34]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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The key word is 'believe'. God gives us a measure of faith. Jesus said if we have the faith the size of a mustard seed we can say to a mountain to be cast into the sea. So accordijng to what Jesus spokeof faith is not a fixed commodity and I think it is pretty equivalent to belief also. Thomas the doubter would be first to say this. But Jesus did send all His disciples out to do just the things that He mentioned and they cast out devils, healed the sick, Paul was bitten by a poisonous serpent and did not die and I am sure somewhere in the bible someone drank a poisonous substance and did not die. Jesus I think did not mean every christian would have the same level of faith and belief but the greater faith and belief He said came not but by prayer and fasting. In other words the dedication of that person and the total time spenmt walking with God gave those great miriacles to happen in their lives. It seems to me that the further away from the days of the Apostles we get the weaker the dedication of individuals becomes. One of the last statements Jesus made in the new testament was,' When the Son of Man returns to this earth, shall He find faith?' If you have turned to Jesus as your saviour I don't think you need worry about your salvation.
Paul
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#197282 - 01/26/11 11:35 PM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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In other words the dedication of that person and the total time spenmt walking with God gave those great miriacles to happen in their lives. It seems to me that the further away from the days of the Apostles we get the weaker the dedication of individuals becomes.
Do you believe there have always been(since the time of Christ anyway) and still are some believers who do 'show the signs' of being a believer like Jesus described in these verses?
Edited by flicka (01/26/11 11:41 PM)
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#197290 - 01/27/11 11:00 AM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: flicka]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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Serpents was meant to mean those pharisees (?spelling) and heathens 'of that day'. I don't think it meant actual snakes and slithering creatures.
Mark is considered a stretch by many scholars and parts totally missing from it. Why would you doubt you are a believer, flicka, other than to make a point. And that point is? cus I don't understand where you're coming from or where you are going with it.
Edited by ævory (01/27/11 11:01 AM)
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#197292 - 01/27/11 12:23 PM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: ævory]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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My point is that if we are to take the Bible, and Christ's words, in a literal sense, I don't know any believers. Nor, have I ever met any.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#197305 - 01/27/11 08:29 PM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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There have been no miracles in the numbers that were with the Apostles in their days that I know of. I am sure there have been some very mighty miracles that have happened but we don't hear of them because they are not in the bible and being spread far and wide. They are just anecdotal evidence. I have heard of many of these life saving miracles where hosts of angels stepped in and turned the tide and saved christians lives. I would consider my experience to have been a real miracle but it is not one that would mean anything to anyone else. People today are just not as dedicated as the Apostles were because they knew the saviour first hand and saw Him after His resurrection and most were martyred for that belief.
Paul
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#197311 - 01/27/11 09:37 PM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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I don't think those verses were translated properly.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#197312 - 01/27/11 09:40 PM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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There are a few extremist churches that believe in snake handling and drinking poison as a regular part of their church services, but many of their members have died in the process. I also remember Oral Roberts say he was casting out demons from people, and I'm sure there are modern preachers who make the same claim.
I guess those folks must take that part of Mark very literally rather than allegorically. Religion can get dangerous and goofy when it's taken to extremes.
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#197317 - 01/27/11 11:13 PM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: ghoti]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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I guess those folks must take that part of Mark very literally rather than allegorically.
Beyond Ronda's mention of 'serpents' representing 'pharisees', how do you read these verses allegorically? How would you explain them, for example?
Religion can get dangerous and goofy when it's taken to extremes.
Everything from 9-11 to snake handling.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#197319 - 01/28/11 07:30 AM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: ghoti]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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There are a few extremist churches that believe in snake handling and drinking poison as a regular part of their church services, but many of their members have died in the process. I also remember Oral Roberts say he was casting out demons from people, and I'm sure there are modern preachers who make the same claim.
I guess those folks must take that part of Mark very literally rather than allegorically. Religion can get dangerous and goofy when it's taken to extremes.
I couldn't really make that guess about people because I can't pinpoint where their outward demonstrations of their faith come from, exactly, can you? Can you pinpoint it to one part of the Bible or another? Let's do that for witchcraft or something else then, shall we. Witchcraft is a religion of sorts, no Bible...but still a faith taken seriously by those who call themselves witches (and such). Isn't the use of nature by practitioners of witchcraft what someone would maybe consider silly and possibly dangerous? They set certain herbs on fire and whisk them around a confined area to exterminate the bad karma. Other examples can be thought of. Why isn't it just easier to let people do what they want than to point out all the flaws there and conjure up boogiemen and evil and danger? We all grow up into adults some time or other and so we have that ability to decide for ourselves what we want to do in life, how we want to believe and all. And it seems there is always this driving force of people who ultimately want to lead all their pointing out of others back to the unnecessary and dangerous causes of war outbreaks. Please, give people more credit than that. If they burn their feet on coals....if they get bitten by the snake out of the straw box, I guess....like children....they will learn not to do that again.
Matthew and Luke followed Mark, in the Bible, neither one of them knew each other. They both knew Mark but not each other and their writings show it --somewhat different interps. One man's reading of the Bible may say they're lies written there because it doesn't quite add up. I say they're just interpretations - thru eyes that truly wished to see.
Truth be told, my shrink mentioned that I was someone who made use of allegory in much of my discussions with him. I don't remember if he told me, upon leaving his services, that That was one of the two hardest things to deal with about me, but he did say it. And he complemented me once when he asked if he could use an allegory that I made up in my head in his book... after he asked me a question (that I don't remember either) . I recall saying, "The battlefield of my mind, ..yada yada..". He wanted to use it. Said no one had put it to him in that manner before.
Anywayzzzz, I could make an allegory for this messageboard right now. If I did, there'd be people who would take it badly and call me out as being hateful or vindictive, bitter, etc etc etc. Now, all that is is interpretation...they've NO idea where my heart is nor what or even IF I wished to accomplish anything (at all) with my expression of my silly, perhaps dangerous allegory.
later~  boards are fun, huh? I'm back to reading you! ...should go without saying. lol , OH, and I use to love Benny Hinn (not that I tuned into him much...just that a friend turned me onto..or rather, made me see the coolness of him and aside from the silly stuff) I thought he certainly got people excited.
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