#201230 - 02/03/12 08:36 PM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: flicka]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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Does that mean you are not a 'believer' also, or do you think these verses are not describing the average believer?
I don't think the verses you quoted were meant to describe believers of average or otherwise. I think all that is just trying to show importance of believing in miracles and that all our life we have all kinds of different temptations...I'm stuck on the serpeant thing and the drink and how confronting the temptations and not yielding to them prepares us to believe and grow in strength of belief. Temptation must have followed Jesus too...look how long he was alone in the desert. He had to be tempted by all sorts of creature or such...knowing he shouldn't take of them but hold strong to the process of resisting temptation.
And I still don't believe you have to be baptized or else you go to Hell. But I may be surprised when I find out.
Anyway, Mark is about miracles, to me, and I believe like ghoti too that it's dangerous to literally take some of this stuff.<---see, I'm growing.
Edited by ævory (02/03/12 08:41 PM)
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#201231 - 02/03/12 08:46 PM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: ævory]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Baptism is just an act a person does to say his old life is dead and he is rising anew to follow Jesus. Maybe the water is a symbol of born of water as in physical birth, it shows a spiritual birth. Though I have been baptised when I was 15 years old, and baptised once again with my wife in my 20's, I don't believe baptism is a requirement for salvation. Nothing we do is a requirement other than just accepting the free gift from God. We don't even have to try to be a better person or even think to be a better person, to accept the gift of salvation from Jesus.
For all those who go out and handle snakes or drink poison maybe they also need to follow these words of Jesus, "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God!"
Paul
Edited by Paulwa_dup1 (02/03/12 08:53 PM)
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#201232 - 02/03/12 08:53 PM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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For all those who go out and handle snakes or drink poison maybe they also need to follow thesae words of Jesus, "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God!"
Paul
oo, yeah, really good point, Paul. lol
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#201264 - 02/06/12 10:51 AM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: ævory]
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ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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IMO the bottom line is that seizing one one small passage from the Bible and using it as the basis of your belief system is a dangerous thing.
_________________________
Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#201271 - 02/07/12 06:31 AM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: ghoti]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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This is so cool. I have just lately been more into the Bible. So I couldn't say when you started this thread, Flicka, ...I couldn't think what I wanted to say. With all that has been said here now, and reading ghoti...gets me really thinking! Gotta say, on ghoti's thought I read wrong: seizing was 'seething' at first til I read it again. which...still has me thinking about serpents. lol
Now I'm thinking, and gotta say (though I knew it anyway) that you are MUCH the believer, Flicka. And your post could very well have been written for anyone (and IS) who might go thru that process of thinking and come to that conclusion. So they'd stop with the so-called nonsense and if they had a brain in their head...they'd think the whole Bible is for the birds. But back to the serpent, snakes...
The serpent could represent that 'bite' or that 'morsel' of knowledge. Take just one bite of the Apple, Adam. And like ghoti said, it's dangerous to just go with one passage and act upon it as though it were the answer to your life. You have to dig more into the Bible to understand and you do that all the time, Flicka. I know dang well you've been to church way way more than me. which, I'm not saying you have to go to church but it helps people to go, sometimes. And you don't go to church to get religion. Religion comes to you. You ARE a believer.
So, the serpent bit Adam for taking that one bite (Adam wanted to find out..he wanted the knowledge that the devil seemed to possess: "it's ok, Adam, eat the apple, it will be ok; take just "one bite": you will SEE).
The devil (Eve?---nah, she wasn't the devil. The devil was using her, though.) eggs him on to do it and it turned out to be dangerous cus the devil was waiting on the other side of that scene to poison him ....the devil being that serpent.
You can lay hands on the devil and cast out the turmoil in your mind with KNOWLEDGE. Knowledge of world happenings and of the bible as well. The Bible is a book, right? It is many books but it is The Book, too. but ya don't physically hold a poisionous snake with the intention of seeing how much faith you have.
And if you think that your knowledge comes from finding all the examples in the world, of pain and misery supposedly caused from religion, and that is it, then how much turmoil in your mind is still causing you pain?
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#201277 - 02/07/12 03:30 PM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: ævory]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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And like ghoti said, it's dangerous to just go with one passage and act upon it as though it were the answer to your life. You have to dig more into the Bible to understand and you do that all the time, Flicka.
True. I originally posted this during a discussion with Ronnie about literal belief in the Bible and when/if we should take a passage in that sense.
I know dang well you've been to church way way more than me. which, I'm not saying you have to go to church but it helps people to go, sometimes. And you don't go to church to get religion. Religion comes to you. You ARE a believer.
Church is good to a certain extent. I'm glad my parents raised me as a church going, parochial school student that gave me a solid foundation about religion. I raised my children in the same manner -- not necessarily because I expected them to continue on in the church, but to allow them the same type of knowledge.
I felt that having such knowledge would better arm them against cults & those kind of experiences. I'm glad I did too because my daughter dated a guy while attending Davis University, who introduced her into a 'cult' type organization. It didn't take her long to recognize signs of something she was not interested in being involved with.
On the other hand, being involved with organized religion has had a negative impact on me in that a church body expects its members to have all the same belief as is taught by that church. I don't. I've been questioning church teachings since a pastor told us that heaven was only so many cubits by so many cubits. In fact, it was so small that we better mind our P's & Q's if we wanted to go there. Something just didn't seem right to me and I've had many other similar incidents since.
I almost feel that at this time in my life, organized religion can only drive me further from belief. I would never admit that to my family as it might scare them into thinking I've turned atheist, but that simply isn't true. I just don't accept all the dogma from any particular religion.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#201287 - 02/08/12 07:01 PM
Re: Looks like I'm headed for Hell...
[Re: flicka]
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Foghorn_Leghorn
Member
Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 102
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Everything changes, espcailly how we perceive and process passages in the bible. There is some cool things in there and its fun to read sometimes but the bible...even the written word is just a small aspect of a greater reality. Sometimes we get caught up in 1 aspect need to step back take a breather 
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