#196424 - 12/20/10 10:09 AM
Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
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ævory
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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Question #2: Your idea that Muslims can follow Jesus and somehow stay Muslim has always confused me.
BY CARL MEDEARIS ⋅ JULY 19, 2010 ⋅ EMAIL THIS POST ⋅ PRINT THIS POST ⋅ POST A COMMENT
Question #2: Your idea that Muslims can follow Jesus and somehow stay Muslim has always confused me. Can you explain what this means in clear laymen’s terms?
This is a big one. And a cornerstone of what we believed God has called us to be a part of…seeing Arab Muslims love and follow Jesus and stay within their context.
First of all, I’m not a Universalist. The scriptures are clear that a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is the one and only way to life here on earth and forever. All ways do not lead to God. Only Jesus does.
Let me try several ways to describe what I mean when I say “Muslims following Jesus,” because it is complex.
Being “Muslim” is almost like being “American.” It’s an identity. It is a religion as well, of course, but so many Muslims are not religious at all – they are simply born Muslim. It’s sort of like being “Christian” just because you were born into a Southern Baptist family in Texas – or a Catholic family in Spain. So don’t misinterpret what the word “Muslim” means.
When it does come to the religious aspects of “being Muslim” like practicing the Five Pillars of Islam – praying five times a day, fasting, giving, the Haj, and saying the Shehadeh – it’s a bit more complicated. First of all, at least three of these are things we’d believe in as well (prayer, fasting and giving). The other two are more problematic. Going to Mecca at least once and saying “There is no god but God and Muhammad is the (final) messenger/prophet of God” and believing that the Qur’an is God’s inspired and final word and that Muhammad is the Prophet who ultimately represents God, are also issues that have to be overcome. So there is an aspect of “Muslimness” that is contrary to the teachings of scriptures and hinders Muslims from being able to see and follow Christ.
“Following” is a vague word. Crowds followed Jesus but did not necessarily “believe in him” in the sense of trusting Him as the one and only way. So it may be a gradation – the initial “following” out of curiosity. Then a following like some of Jesus’ disciples who also didn’t necessarily believe until the end. And finally, there is a “following” that leads to life. It includes loving Jesus. Believing/trusting in him. And seeing him as the resurrected Lord and Savior. This, of course, is what we’re hoping for…
What we don’t want to see is our Muslim friends announcing (or thinking) that they have “become Christians” which will be interpreted by their family and community as joining a Western, Capitalistic, Democratic political movement that is against all the foundations of what this Muslim person grew up with. If they “become Christian” they will be kicked out and possibly killed. But not for their faith in Jesus, but because, in a sense, they will be seen as having “joined the enemy.”
If Muslims are to be salt and light in their own communities we can’t keep losing them to the West. The recent debacle of “The Son of Hamas” who “converted to Christianity” and then had to move to America is a good example. He is now a wanted man. Not because of his faith, but because he betrayed his family and people.
There is another way – Muslims who love, believe and follow the biblically revealed Jesus Christ – and who stay in their communities as “Muslims” can be salt and light to their own people in a culturally relevant way. This is powerful and it is the wave of the future in the Islamic world. I believe this is what God is doing and we should join him in it.
http://www.carlmedearis.com/blog/2010/07...laymen’s-terms/
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#196434 - 12/20/10 01:38 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: ævory]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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To Muslms, Machdi is the Lord and Jesus is his helper and Muhammed is the prophet. The Muslims in the extreme will kill any who do not follow the koran. Christans follow Jesus. The big fight between the bible and the koran is who was God's chosen, Ishmael (Muslim) or Isaac (Jew-Christian). Till one or the other of them show up and take over there wll be battles to the death. Both religions think that day is upon us or very near.
Jesus is my choice 100 percent!
Paul
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#196440 - 12/20/10 01:58 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
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Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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To Muslms, Machdi is the Lord and Jesus is his helper and Muhammed is the prophet.
Wrong.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#196441 - 12/20/10 02:17 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Where am I wrong Flicka?
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#196446 - 12/20/10 03:07 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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The Mahdi will be a normal man who will be Caliph over all Arab nations for 7 years. Jesus is a messenger/prophet sent from God, who ascended into heaven (no death) and will come again to defeat the antichrist. He & the Mahdi will bring peace to the earth. Muhammed is the final prophet.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#196447 - 12/20/10 05:02 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Wouldn't think the Mahdi would be a normal man who has lived at the bottom of a deep water well for maybe centuries and who will only appear after much bloodshed of the people who don't accept the koran! Jesus will need no help bringing peace to the earth since He is King of heaven and earth. Mahdi is totally Islam and I don't accept Muhammed as a prophet from God in any sense. Guess I can't talk about Islam because I don't believe in it's veracity at all. Your view is strictly Islamic and I just cannot accept it, but it is fine for those who may believe in the koran, but to me it is a false relgion.
Guess no point in even discussng it. Of course I realize your personal view is christian.
Paul
Edited by Paulwa_dup1 (12/20/10 05:03 PM)
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#196448 - 12/20/10 05:17 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Wouldn't think the Mahdi would be a normal man who has lived at the bottom of a deep water well for maybe centuries and who will only appear after much bloodshed of the people who don't accept the koran!
Where did you hear, or read, this story? I have not heard this.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#196450 - 12/20/10 07:07 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Paul, this is not a 'Muslim' belief. It is not recognized by most followers of the Muslim religion. If you really want to know what most Muslims think about the Mahdi, read this wikipedia article. It will give you the basics.
The notion that the Mahdi is hiding in this well is probably a local legend, similar to other legends like the fountain of youth.
Edited by flicka (12/20/10 07:08 PM)
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#196456 - 12/20/10 08:23 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Mehdi..meaning in english..one of the moon...Moon God? Read it but not too impressed with that religion.
Hopethey are happy with iitand allow others to keep their heads if they disagree.
Paul
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#196457 - 12/20/10 08:41 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Mehdi..meaning in english..one of the moon...Moon God?
No, Paul, the coming Mahdi is not a god. He is a normal man. The God of the Muslims is Allah.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#196458 - 12/20/10 09:11 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Some of them say he is centuries old and came from heaven and will come from heaven at the end times, others say he is a normal man..Who is right? Oh and also the well too.
Paul
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#196459 - 12/20/10 09:19 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Some of them say he is centuries old and came from heaven and will come from heaven at the end times, others say he is a normal man..Who is right? Oh and also the well too.
Paul
It is not a mainstream Muslim belief and doesn't matter one iota. It is no different than you & I disagreeing on the rapture.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#196481 - 12/21/10 07:38 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: flicka]
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ronniechoate34
Member
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
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Paul, this is not a 'Muslim' belief. It is not recognized by most followers of the Muslim religion. If you really want to know what most Muslims think about the Mahdi, read this wikipedia article. It will give you the basics. The notion that the Mahdi is hiding in this well is probably a local legend, similar to other legends like the fountain of youth.
Do you know how many "Christians" hold beliefs that aren't the least bit Christian?
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#196483 - 12/21/10 07:57 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: ronniechoate34]
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Paul I
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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I was about to post what ronnie just said. There are no two Christians that believe the same thing. EVERY group has added and subtracted ideas and protocol or interpreted the Bible their own way. There is no absolutely perfect, flawless or unedited, perfectly translated version of the Bible, the Koran, the Book of Mormon, the Talmud, etc.
_________________________
"...only the shadow knows"
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#196486 - 12/21/10 08:02 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: ronniechoate34]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Do you know how many "Christians" hold beliefs that aren't the least bit Christian?
That's what I'm talking about.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#196487 - 12/21/10 08:06 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: flicka]
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Johnboy 64
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Registered: 11/16/01
Posts: 15944
Loc: a nice place
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it's MY way or straight to hell with ya! j/k 
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#196496 - 12/22/10 01:01 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: Johnboy 64]
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starlight.2
Member
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 796
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it's MY way or straight to hell with ya! j/k
unfortunately, some say that and aren't.
_________________________
Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace.
--Dalai Lama
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#196498 - 12/22/10 01:10 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: starlight.2]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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There are extremists within every belief, even with atheist thought.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#196502 - 12/22/10 01:52 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Well what ever faith or non faith we all are I think we are in the final days of mankind running the world into the ground. I hope every one is strong in the way they view their lives and lifestyles. I think things are going to change drastically very soon.
Merry Christmas!Or what ever your choice of holidays.
Paul
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#196506 - 12/22/10 02:21 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paul I
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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Judgment day, should it come in my lifetime, will be on the basis of childhood, emotional and psychological needs, life's events, etc. Our creator knows each of us has be tested by life and that will be part of the judgment should there be one.
_________________________
"...only the shadow knows"
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#196509 - 12/22/10 03:58 PM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: ævory]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Being “Muslim” is almost like being “American.” It’s an identity. It is a religion as well, of course, but so many Muslims are not religious at all – they are simply born Muslim. It’s sort of like being “Christian” just because you were born into a Southern Baptist family in Texas – or a Catholic family in Spain. So don’t misinterpret what the word “Muslim” means.
Incidentally, this is bullshit. One is not a Christian simply by being born to Christian parents.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#196706 - 01/06/11 04:07 AM
Re: Question #2: Your idea that Muslims...
[Re: flicka]
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Paul I
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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Being Muslim is far more a way of life than being Christian. It is
validated 5 times daily and it's beliefs, far more expansive than
Christians permeates all dimensions of daily life. Those who are Christian do the same but in a far less intensive and expansive way. The requirements for practicing as a Protestant are relatively simple whereas Catholic and Jewish are a bit more
ritualistic.
Certainly there are Muslims who are public Muslims and closet
non-Muslim as in any religion. And there are naturally
liberal Muslims.
I firmly believe that there will be no end times in any way until the temples in Jerusalem are unified as would be the religions. The three represented in Jerusalem are so similar in core beliefs and heritage it is easy to see that the conflict is generated not by the origins as by the interpretation of those followers who have no greater insight than anyone. All the
abominations of Abraham's heritage are created to be self-serving
for whomever choses to justify their actions. This unification is the ultimate challenge of loving and giving and when achieved
will be the major triumph of peoples spiritual adulthood. This will be the "kingdom" on earth
Jesus was also an ordinary human and in my belief will return as one which does not conflict with Muslim belief.
One can see that we have a long ways to go.
Edited by Paul I (01/06/11 04:12 AM)
_________________________
"...only the shadow knows"
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