#195911 - 12/02/10 07:45 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: flicka]
|
ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
|
Flicka you are just blind to the evidence in the bible Read the webpage I linked to see there is NO evidence that Paul preached a secret rapture. None.
See how you two are missing each other...different eyes...one says 'evidence in the bible' (which, i agree with there) and the other talks of secrecy.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195921 - 12/02/10 11:25 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: ævory]
|
flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
|
No, Paul didn't teach a secret rapture and from reading this board i dont' see anyone saying he did.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195922 - 12/02/10 11:40 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: flicka]
|
flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
|
And the Jews...well they surely didn't believe in the whole Jesus is Messaiha (spelling sucks cus i'm tired) cus of more than just a lack of belief..there were other reasons,
Correct. Jesus did not fit the description (fulfill the prophecy the Jews are expecting) for their messiah.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195923 - 12/02/10 11:55 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: ævory]
|
flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
|
Flicka you are just blind to the evidence in the bible Read the webpage I linked to see there is NO evidence that Paul preached a secret rapture. None. See how you two are missing each other...different eyes...one says 'evidence in the bible' (which, i agree with there) and the other talks of secrecy.
If one is to believe in Paulwa's notion of a "rapture" it was a secret until the middle 1800s...despite Paulwa's denial, the rapture he speaks of is "secret" and not preached about, or acknowledged by Bible scholars with hours of study behind them. The idea popped out of man's desires in the 1800s.
I actually believe that man is "raptured" when he/she dies. It's that simple, in my book.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195924 - 12/03/10 06:48 AM
Re: Strange..
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
|
corlorde
Member
Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 9246
|
You know the scripture Paul wrote when he said I show you a mystery, we shall not all sleep but the dead in christ shall rise first then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up to be with the Lord forever.
It appears that quote was dealing with the resurrection of Christ, and not necessarily about how Christ was going to come back to earth and take his church back to heaven.
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195926 - 12/03/10 09:46 AM
Re: Strange..
[Re: flicka]
|
ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
|
Flicka you are just blind to the evidence in the bible Read the webpage I linked to see there is NO evidence that Paul preached a secret rapture. None. See how you two are missing each other...different eyes...one says 'evidence in the bible' (which, i agree with there) and the other talks of secrecy. If one is to believe in Paulwa's notion of a "rapture" it was a secret until the middle 1800s...despite Paulwa's denial, the rapture he speaks of is "secret" and not preached about, or acknowledged by Bible scholars with hours of study behind them. The idea popped out of man's desires in the 1800s. I actually believe that man is "raptured" when he/she dies. It's that simple, in my book.
Not in my book. lol Really, I'm not dissing your view. I just see it differently. Christians are to be forever watchful and in reading the Bible you can see the prophecies spoken of that are of past, present and future...one book -->the New Testament, aligning with the Old Testament to help us understand which ones have been fullfilled and which ones remain to be. And when Paul (the prophet) spoke of the mysteries he was speaking (in my opinion) or trying to speak in their language...in the way in which they 'saw' things. That seeing way they had was to think that it was secrecy and a mystery, so Paul speaks to them saying "I will tell you the mystery" [I will tell you what you think is a mystery] BECAUSE nothing IS a mystery. It is written in the Bible and support for the prophecies are thru-out it. The only thing I think I've ever read about secrecy is the final time. The final prophecy and NO one knows what is to come nor what has been written of it.But I can't find it in the Bible, now, which is what I've been trying to find ...maybe it isn't meant for me to find where I read that.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195932 - 12/03/10 10:57 AM
Re: Strange..
[Re: ævory]
|
flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
|
The only thing I think I've ever read about secrecy is the final time. The final prophecy and NO one knows what is to come nor what has been written of it.But I can't find it in the Bible, now, which is what I've been trying to find ...maybe it isn't meant for me to find where I read that.
Maybe Matthew 24:36?
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
----
The reason you have not read of the secret rapture is because it is not in the Bible. The 'rapture' is referred to as "secret" because of that fact.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195935 - 12/03/10 01:48 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: MerryA]
|
Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
|
Well the answer about the rapture is in the bible and people will squabble over it's meaning for years, but there is written proof of religiousleaderspreaching about the rapture from the tme of Paulon down through time..long before Darby picked up on it in the 1800's. It is not important but the bible says those who are watching for His return will get a special crown. He says he will come like a thief in the night and that seems to place it in a secretiive category formasny. he also says that after that people will believe a lie and be damned. Many scholars beliieve that statement to be about the explanation of where millions of people just up and diisappeared too and would probably be told by the anti christ to bring people to him to worship him as the messiah.
Colorde, that scripture about the dead in Christ is not about Jesus resurrection, He was the first fruits of the resurrection. The bible says many saints were resurrected just after Christ and were seen and talked to by many christians before Jesus ascended to heaven. No, that scripture talked of the resurrection of all dead christians and the catching up of those who were alive at the time, thus the scripture is true where He says many will not see death from the generation who is there at the time of the rapture and that they would be caught up instantly after the dead in Christ are raptured. Well I am through espousing on this subject, you either see it or you don't..it is there and very plain to those who study it. The old style churches just do not see it but many are startiing to come around to that view of the truth.
Paul
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195936 - 12/03/10 03:12 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
|
flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
|
It is not important but the bible says those who are watching for His return will get a special crown. He says he will come like a thief in the night and that seems to place it in a secretiive category formasny.
All who believe in the second coming of Christ know that it can happen when no one expects it (like a thief in the night). Therefore, all who believe in the second coming of Christ are watching for His return.
No, that scripture talked of the resurrection of all dead christians and the catching up of those who were alive at the time, thus the scripture is true where He says many will not see death from the generation who is there at the time of the rapture and that they would be caught up instantly after the dead in Christ are raptured.
I believe that those who are alive at the time of the second coming of Christ, will not see death. What you are referencing as the "rapture" is the second coming of Christ.
Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
The old style churches just do not see it but many are startiing to come around to that view of the truth.
This perversion of scripture leaves God's chosen people behind. It just doesn't jive with old testament teaching.
Why didn't Peter teach this theory?
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195943 - 12/03/10 08:21 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: flicka]
|
Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
|
I don't know why Peter didn't preach the rapture, not sure that he didn't but Paul went to heaven and came back and Peter didn't.
It doesn't jive with what the Jews believe because God has seperate plans for them.
Like said before am through explaining why I believe in the pre trib rapture and am solid in my understanding and belief. If you are happy with your interpretaton, good for you. I have said enough.
Paul
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195962 - 12/04/10 09:20 AM
Re: Strange..
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
|
corlorde
Member
Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 9246
|
I don't know why Peter didn't preach the rapture, not sure that he didn't but Paul went to heaven and came back and Peter didn't.
It doesn't jive with what the Jews believe because God has seperate plans for them.
God probably has "separate plans" for everyone. No sense in trying to figure out what they are, since everyone has different views on what "the plan" is. I figure, I'll live my life as best I can, and let the chips fall where they may
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195964 - 12/04/10 11:42 AM
Re: Strange..
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
|
flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
|
It doesn't jive with what the Jews believe because God has seperate plans for them.
But, it is impossible to think God would put His chosen people in the position of being pawns to the gentiles. There's the big rub.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195970 - 12/04/10 02:34 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: flicka]
|
Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
|
It is God's plan and we can not always understand His motives. He has great plans at the end for the 144,000 of His people to carry out. There are two seperate covenants with mankind. The first covenant is to Israel His chosen people to carry Hiis plans and words (bible) forth. The second covenant is by Jesus (God in human flesh) to those who accept His sacrifice. Both have their own set of values seperate from each other but overlappng in fundamental ways and built from the same religious foundation.
Paul
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195985 - 12/04/10 07:31 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
|
flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
|
Both have their own set of values seperate from each other but overlappng in fundamental ways and built from the same religious foundation.
One could say the same about the other Abahamic religion also.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
