#195867 - 12/01/10 02:40 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ævory]
|
Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
|
Deo, I agree with much of what Merrya explained. We are not capable of earning salvation or the right to return and live with God. Our righteousness is as dirty filthy rags Jesus said so we would never be worthy. Accepting Jesus sacrifice for us and being covered by His blood sacrifice as a free gift of God is the only thing that makes us worthy to live with God in the end. While we are on earth we are to live and try to follow Jesus example of life as best we can and pray for forgiveness when we fail. Most other religions don't really describe what what the end result will be like after following the path chosen as God does describe that of christianity. Lucifer has really been at work trying to muddy the waters and misdirect people away from God's true path to eternity. Yes it all sounds like a story, including all religions, but living the christian life God proves Himself to be the true way to every believer as he grows in his faith and belief. He answers many prayers though there are some He choses not to answer because He knows best. I have had so many interactions with god as to eliminate practically all unbelief in my life. There arelow times that make the best christians waver some times and we wonder how we could disbelieve after all the truths God has heaped upon us but that is just a result of the sin we are born into. In finality we still have faith to continue on and that is because of the gift of God's Holy Spirit who lives with christians to teach them God's way.
Paul
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195868 - 12/01/10 03:59 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ævory]
|
flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
|
How can you revere or have great respect or any respect for someone you don't believe in, ghoti?
Ghoti has said that he believes Jesus was a great man. He just doesn't think Jesus was deity.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195869 - 12/01/10 04:11 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: flicka]
|
flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
|
Why Jews don't believe in Jesus
Jesus Did Not Fulfill the Messianic Prophecies
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:
A.Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
B.Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
C.Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
D.Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world ― on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195870 - 12/01/10 04:15 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ævory]
|
inkblister
Member
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 231
Loc: Land of Debris...
|
Merry, I readily accept and understand what you are saying, and it is wonderful... But by the way I intepreted what Paulwa was saying (perhaps incorrectly), it seemed to me his perspective of Jesus was that he was "god" even when emodied as a man in physical form...
So why say 'Rest in Peace' to anyone who has passed away, ink? If not for belief in the afterlife --- those words, spoken by a human, are just words. They don't hold any meaning whatsoever, do they? Well...maybe they comfort those who hear them and such but Is there a human being who can make that happen? no, so why say it?
You are pushing your perspectives into a place where it does not belong... We (Buddhists) don't say 'Rest in Peace'... We do not precieve the afterlife as a time of rest, but rather just another state of being, be it reincarnation or another state of existance... Whatever it may be, we will continue to experience encounters and challenges...
Man ...as evidenced by capitalism, and yada yada (the search to have a more scientific plan/outcome to something) is programmed to outdo each other, to try to be better than another. So if you think that believing in Jesus as Son of God and the only way to eternal peace is something that makes us lesser and never able to attain then you're right...God does not expect that we be Jesus...to get the closest of all possibilities to the morality of Jesus, etc, we would have to BE Jesus. How any thought could result in a feeling of failure (of being set up for failure) by BELIEVING in God, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is beyond my understanding.
How this concept has not ever occured to you, even if it is dismissed, is beyond my understanding... As Buddhists, we are taught to question everything, especially Buddhism itself and ones faith in it... It is this constant re-examination in my belief that keeps me so close to it...
As Ronnie says, we all are sinful and we all lack that which is perfect. Sure, if you feel more comfortable thinking that by putting everyone and everything on a mere mortal ground for comparison, then you can maybe think it comforting that YOU can compete with another, can work toward perfection and not failure (in your mind, that failure coming from --->setting the stakes too high in Jesus)
Again you are placing your perspecive somewhere it does not apply... The concept of "sin" is purely a Christian one and does not apply to non-Christians (dispite what you may believe or have been taught)...
Of course I compare it to mortal ground, as I stated in my last post, this is now at this moment, is my current reality and where I exist... Once this changes to to that, what ever it may be in the future, it will change with that change... All things (physically, mentally, spiritually) are temporary and constantly changing... Buddhism teaches us to recognize and embrace this... Buddhism understands that even itself must and will change to become something different than what it was, is, and will be, for that is the nature of the universe...
Buddhism is not about seeking perfection, in fact perfection, seen through our eyes, is a fleeting abberation... Perfection leads to stagnation, for once acheived it cannot progess or grow... In this sense perfection is, in of itself, imperfect (not to mention boring in the long run)... Buddhism seeks balance... Inbalance is where conflict and suffering thrive, be it in the physical or spiritual world... Failure is just as important as success, as it is through failure that we learn the most and encourages us to try again... Buddah failed many times before succeeding in his search for enlightenment... But failure without the possibility of success is futility... The ultimate inbalance...
BUT you Still are looking at someone or some thing...some ideal that is your mentor, your instruction...something that gives your life structure. But that doesn't sound like peace to me.
I am not still looking, I have found it in Buddhism and Buddah, and that is my peace... Is this not what you also seek and have found in your faith in the Bible and Jesus?...
Peace to me is in Letting Go...in believing in a higher power and knowing that all of what is earthly comes to a point of the unreachable...except thru faith. We are always in sin until the end of time. We are always trying to achieve the better...or should be. My take.
If this is what works for you and brings you what you seek then is is indeed a wonderful thing, and I encourage you to embrace and hold onto it... As I said before, it just would not and does not for me, but I have found something that does... I just don't get into fisting it down other people's throats...
Edited by inkblister (12/01/10 04:22 PM)
_________________________
I'm not outnumbered... I have a wide target selection...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195871 - 12/01/10 04:51 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: flicka]
|
ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
|
How can you revere or have great respect or any respect for someone you don't believe in, ghoti? Ghoti has said that he believes Jesus was a great man. He just doesn't think Jesus was deity.
Please don't answer for someone I have addressed by name, flicka. thanx
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195872 - 12/01/10 04:53 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ævory]
|
ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
|
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
I know many Christians who make an effort to live up to the model of Jesus, but I've also met many who fit this quote perfectly. It's the main reason why, even though I have deep respect for Jesus and try to use him as my role model, I refuse to call myself a Christian. I don't see that you do have that respect for Jesus. I do not blame Christianity (THE FAITH) for the actions of Christians (people who practise Christianity....why? because every one of us are fallable), and to call oneself a Christian, he or she would naturally be of the faith of Christianity. You refuse to call yourself a Christian because you do not believe in the faith of Christianity. You don't believe in Jesus. How can you revere or have great respect or any respect for someone you don't believe in, ghoti?
Before my last question here, does what I said make logical sense....in the world of logic . Is it sound deduction?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195873 - 12/01/10 05:20 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ævory]
|
inkblister
Member
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 231
Loc: Land of Debris...
|
No aevory, it doesnt make any logical sense... ghoti made no reference whatsoever against Jesus in his statement, in fact he obviously stated the opposite... He just critisized those that call themselves christians but act otherwise, just as Ghandi did...
Kinda like what you just did...
I personally believe you should retract your statements and isuue him an apology...
[ed. to add]---
One can admire Jesus without being christian... Even I, as a Buddhist, find much wisdom and compassion in his story even though I am not a follower of his faith...
Kinda like rooting for the Chicago Bears in a game even though you may not really be a football fan and live in San Diego... (bad analogy I know, but you get the point)...
Edited by inkblister (12/01/10 05:30 PM)
_________________________
I'm not outnumbered... I have a wide target selection...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195875 - 12/01/10 06:03 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: inkblister]
|
ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
|
This is where I am coming from, toots. Since I have read so often that the debate against one religious belief or another has been "the use of logic...of reasoning, of sound judgment' AND, I am fully aware that I am not good at using reasons of deduction and all those analogies and yada yada that is often the method of debating anything a christian says, I WANT TO KNOW, if one (ghoti, shakey, you..merry, flicka..but mainly GHOTI, PLEASE, if what I wrote is of sound reasoning.
Is it possible to detach your emotional self from what I said and evaluate it? Like...pretend that someone ELSE said it, if you wish.
I see NO difference in what I read on these boards by members when they say that they have lost respect for a poster because they think the one they once had respect for is either a crazy ol coot or crazy, period...or, they don't believe in them for one reason or other--------> you posters have Over and aGain posted that you had lost respect for the man or woman.
Now, tell me, if Jesus was JUST a man...as has absolutely been your stand, Ghoti, and I also hold you to your post of past that said you only think that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were the only parts of the Bible worth anything.....How can you convince me or anyone that you have respect for one you just don't believe in.
NO, I want the man's viewpoint on this. Why must you people ALWAYS answer for another? I say "people" when you act like a group. Don't act like a group and I won't group you. simple
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195876 - 12/01/10 06:04 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: inkblister]
|
ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
|
I personally believe you should retract your statements and isuue him an apology...
I was not asking what you believe.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195877 - 12/01/10 06:18 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ævory]
|
inkblister
Member
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 231
Loc: Land of Debris...
|
I personally believe you should retract your statements and isuue him an apology...
I was not asking what you believe.
Hahahaha!... This coming from you is truely funny Ms. Pott!...
I (as well as many others) never asked what you believe, but you always post anyway as well, "Toots"... At least "our" posts are coherent, pertinant, and make sense...
And no, it was most certainly not of sound reasoning, whether you wrote it or not...
Edited by inkblister (12/01/10 06:22 PM)
_________________________
I'm not outnumbered... I have a wide target selection...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195893 - 12/02/10 06:41 AM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: inkblister]
|
MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
|
Merry, I readily accept and understand what you are saying, and it is wonderful... But by the way I intepreted what Paulwa was saying (perhaps incorrectly), it seemed to me his perspective of Jesus was that he was "god" even when emodied as a man in physical form...
That Jesus was God incarnate on earth as man is one of the mysteries of Christian faith. He was divine and man at the same time. Christianity is definately a faith based religion. 
_________________________
"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195895 - 12/02/10 08:02 AM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: inkblister]
|
ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
|
I was not asking what you believe.
At least "our" posts are coherent, pertinant, and make sense...
[/quote]
Your ego is getting in the way of your kindness and patience.
Peace be unto your buddhaism. HA! 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195896 - 12/02/10 08:56 AM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ævory]
|
ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
|
Ronda, I don't understand what exactly you find confusing about my position. I believe in ONE creator, not a trinity of gods. I believe Jesus was a man who was given an important message to us from the creator, and I have great respect for him and that message.
IMO that message was that we should show kindness and compassion to each other instead of pursuing revenge and greed. I do my poor best to try to follow that, since I believe it's the key to making the world a better place.
I consider myself an admirer and follower of Jesus as a bearer of that message but I don't worship him as a god. What's so hard to understand about that?
Yours very truly,
Snide old bastard
_________________________
Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195898 - 12/02/10 12:42 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ghoti]
|
Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
|
You know what I have to say about that Ghoti and what I believe your results may be for following that path, though knowing God's mercy I can hope I am wrong. I really have to think any good man does will not go unrewarded by a just and fair God. In some ways I wish Jesus could have been more clear in explanation, some of His statements about belief in His deity and hell leaves one shaking their head in confusion. But we do have to take Him at His word because He is God. The truth may be in His statement to search out your truths with fear and trembling because what you believe and how you follow those beliefs might be your only salvation for life with God. I do know that in finalty according to the bible their will be physical humans along wiith humans in a glorified body such as Jesus has, living on the earth. Well maybe during the Millenium anyway and that the river of life will flow out of the Holy city and be lined with the trees of life and it says the leaves wll be for the healing of the nations. Physical bodies will need these things to stay alive. Also that the people will come to the city to learn the ways God wants them to live. Even during that time there wll be some who will be punished and will lose eternal life. After the great white throne judgement I am not sure if physical humans will remain or whether they will have eternal bodies also on the new heavens and earth God creates. It will be a grand and glorious finish to God's plan anyway for those who make it through to the end. It does make sense that people who have lived wicked lives will get their just punishment and those victims of those people will be recompensed for their losses. God will balance the equation of life and not leave it hanging lopsided. He is perfection in all ways.
Peace
Paul
Edited by Paulwa_dup1 (12/02/10 12:43 PM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#195900 - 12/02/10 01:08 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ævory]
|
inkblister
Member
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 231
Loc: Land of Debris...
|
I was not asking what you believe.
At least "our" posts are coherent, pertinant, and make sense... Your ego is getting in the way of your kindness and patience. Peace be unto your buddhaism. HA!
And you, aevory, are the prime example of how some Christians are the least Christ-like... You always talk the talk, but I have yet to see a post from you that walks the walk...
And we are also taught to treat others as we would have others treat us... I am meerly returning the same treatment to you as you have given to me, thus the balance is kept...
As I have said to you before, just because I am Buddhist doesn't mean I can't be an occasinal ass, just as being a Christian doesn't prevent you from being a complete bitch...
HA!...
[ed.] Plus, It's not my ego, just an obvious observation for all to see...
[add. ed.] I just noticed that even when aevory quotes another it gets confused... LOL!...
Edited by inkblister (12/02/10 07:05 PM)
_________________________
I'm not outnumbered... I have a wide target selection...
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
