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#195538 - 11/21/10 10:58 AM Scientific Research --- Bogus
ævory
Member


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
Don't they have any ethics? What's a person suppose to believe? Come on, let's be reasonable.

US scientists significantly more likely to publish fake research
November 16, 2010
US scientists are significantly more likely to publish fake research than scientists from elsewhere, finds a trawl of officially withdrawn (retracted) studies, published online in the Journal of Medical Ethics.
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Fraudsters are also more likely to be "repeat offenders," the study shows.
The study author searched the PubMed database for every scientific research paper that had been withdrawn—and therefore officially expunged from the public record—between 2000 and 2010.
A total of 788 papers had been retracted during this period. Around three quarters of these papers had been withdrawn because of a serious error (545); the rest of the retractions were attributed to fraud (data fabrication or falsification).
The highest number of retracted papers were written by US first authors (260), accounting for a third of the total. One in three of these was attributed to fraud.
The UK, India, Japan, and China each had more than 40 papers withdrawn during the decade. Asian nations, including South Korea, accounted for 30% of retractions. Of these, one in four was attributed to fraud.
The fakes were more likely to appear in leading publications with a high "impact factor." This is a measure of how often research is cited in other peer reviewed journals.
More than half (53%) of the faked research papers had been written by a first author who was a "repeat offender." This was the case in only one in five (18%) of the erroneous papers.
The average number of authors on all retracted papers was three, but some had 10 or more. Faked research papers were significantly more likely to have multiple authors.
Each first author who was a repeat fraudster had an average of six co-authors, each of whom had had another three retractions.
"The duplicity of some authors is cause for concern," comments the author. Retraction is the strongest sanction that can be applied to published research, but currently, "[it] is a very blunt instrument used for offences both gravely serious and trivial."
Provided by British Medical Journal (news : web)

http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-scientists-significantly-publish-fake.html./


Edited by ævory (11/21/10 10:58 AM)

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#195586 - 11/22/10 01:33 PM Re: Scientific Research --- Bogus [Re: ævory]
ghoti
Member


Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
What makes science great is that it's self-correcting. How do you suppose all the fakers got revealed?

No individual scientific report or theory is ever fully accepted until it has been checked and duplicated by a large number of fellow researchers. Only things that have been thoroughly corroborated are accepted, otherwise it's rejected.

Someone can try to get away with submitting falsified data or a bogus theory, but they will quickly be revealed and outed, and that person's reputation within the scientific community will be destroyed forever. Creationists find that out whenever they try to submmit bogus reports supporting the completely disproven "young earth" concept.
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#195589 - 11/22/10 01:47 PM Re: Scientific Research --- Bogus [Re: ævory]
ronniechoate34
Member


Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
Originally Posted By: ævory
Don't they have any ethics? What's a person suppose to believe? Come on, let's be reasonable.

US scientists significantly more likely to publish fake research
November 16, 2010
US scientists are significantly more likely to publish fake research than scientists from elsewhere, finds a trawl of officially withdrawn (retracted) studies, published online in the Journal of Medical Ethics.
Ads by Google
Theology Studies Online - Earn A Theology Degree or Diploma from Home. Get Free Info Today! - http://www.eLearners.com/Theology

Fraudsters are also more likely to be "repeat offenders," the study shows.
The study author searched the PubMed database for every scientific research paper that had been withdrawn—and therefore officially expunged from the public record—between 2000 and 2010.
A total of 788 papers had been retracted during this period. Around three quarters of these papers had been withdrawn because of a serious error (545); the rest of the retractions were attributed to fraud (data fabrication or falsification).
The highest number of retracted papers were written by US first authors (260), accounting for a third of the total. One in three of these was attributed to fraud.
The UK, India, Japan, and China each had more than 40 papers withdrawn during the decade. Asian nations, including South Korea, accounted for 30% of retractions. Of these, one in four was attributed to fraud.
The fakes were more likely to appear in leading publications with a high "impact factor." This is a measure of how often research is cited in other peer reviewed journals.
More than half (53%) of the faked research papers had been written by a first author who was a "repeat offender." This was the case in only one in five (18%) of the erroneous papers.
The average number of authors on all retracted papers was three, but some had 10 or more. Faked research papers were significantly more likely to have multiple authors.
Each first author who was a repeat fraudster had an average of six co-authors, each of whom had had another three retractions.
"The duplicity of some authors is cause for concern," comments the author. Retraction is the strongest sanction that can be applied to published research, but currently, "[it] is a very blunt instrument used for offences both gravely serious and trivial."
Provided by British Medical Journal (news : web)

http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-scientists-significantly-publish-fake.html./



Aevory, don't you know that to many people science is not bogus and scientists are no liars? To them these are educated men and women that are seeking to answer our needs and concerns.


They believe that these people called scientists have done the research in all instances. People have faith in their scientistsnd teachers aevory. Everything that a scientists publishes is an official truth and is presented as such.


These same people also believe that mankind is basically good and that science would only be used to help mankind. They can't fathom the use of science to control people; and yes lies are a part of that.


With science there's a lot of disinformation involved. I think any rational person could see that.


Science is bittersweet while Jesus is pure and holy Truth.

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#195620 - 11/22/10 03:26 PM Re: Scientific Research --- Bogus [Re: ronniechoate34]
ghoti
Member


Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
If you choose to reject science, are you ready to also reject all the improvements that science has provided to modern life? If so, I know of several Amish comminities who will willingly accept you.

Science is simply the creator's way of making life physically more comfortable, while religion is his way of making it more spiritually comfortable. I see no reason for any conflict between the two.
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#195643 - 11/22/10 10:12 PM Re: Scientific Research --- Bogus [Re: ghoti]
Deo
Member


Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 127
I conduct research in Agriculture. We are presently trying to develop a product for farmers called biofertilizers. These are products containing beneficial soil microorganisms. I am fully aware of how data can be manipulated to appear to show treatment effects. We could produce the best research results but ultimately if the effects are not replicated in the farmer's fields then our research is invalid. Our research is built on the experiences of others through research papers or personal experiences and are always been subject failure, but with failure we gain experience. It's a process that is constantly self correcting and subject to peer review and never perfect.

aevory in today's world we read reviews on everything from research papers to stuff sold on amazon. That's how you judge if claims made on anything has any merit. You don't judge entire groups of people on bogus claims made by some. That's stereotyping.

Deo

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#195732 - 11/27/10 07:37 PM Re: Scientific Research --- Bogus [Re: ghoti]
ævory
Member


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
Originally Posted By: ghoti


No individual scientific report or theory is ever fully accepted until it has been checked and duplicated by a large number of fellow researchers. Only things that have been thoroughly corroborated are accepted, otherwise it's rejected.



I got one word for you: MARS

ok...I'll give you two: MARS and CANALS

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#195733 - 11/27/10 07:39 PM Re: Scientific Research --- Bogus [Re: ghoti]
ævory
Member


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
Originally Posted By: ghoti
If you choose to reject science, are you ready to also reject all the improvements that science has provided to modern life? If so, I know of several Amish comminities who will willingly accept you.

Science is simply the creator's way of making life physically more comfortable, while religion is his way of making it more spiritually comfortable. I see no reason for any conflict between the two.


Who ever mentioned rejecting science? I think you're mixed up about/with your own rejections.

If there isn't any conflict in your mind then why are there so many posts by you on this forum that beg to differ with what you wrote here?

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#195734 - 11/27/10 07:40 PM Re: Scientific Research --- Bogus [Re: ronniechoate34]
ævory
Member


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
Originally Posted By: ronniechoate34
Originally Posted By: ævory
Don't they have any ethics? What's a person suppose to believe? Come on, let's be reasonable.

US scientists significantly more likely to publish fake research
November 16, 2010
US scientists are significantly more likely to publish fake research than scientists from elsewhere, finds a trawl of officially withdrawn (retracted) studies, published online in the Journal of Medical Ethics.
Ads by Google
Theology Studies Online - Earn A Theology Degree or Diploma from Home. Get Free Info Today! - http://www.eLearners.com/Theology

Fraudsters are also more likely to be "repeat offenders," the study shows.
The study author searched the PubMed database for every scientific research paper that had been withdrawn—and therefore officially expunged from the public record—between 2000 and 2010.
A total of 788 papers had been retracted during this period. Around three quarters of these papers had been withdrawn because of a serious error (545); the rest of the retractions were attributed to fraud (data fabrication or falsification).
The highest number of retracted papers were written by US first authors (260), accounting for a third of the total. One in three of these was attributed to fraud.
The UK, India, Japan, and China each had more than 40 papers withdrawn during the decade. Asian nations, including South Korea, accounted for 30% of retractions. Of these, one in four was attributed to fraud.
The fakes were more likely to appear in leading publications with a high "impact factor." This is a measure of how often research is cited in other peer reviewed journals.
More than half (53%) of the faked research papers had been written by a first author who was a "repeat offender." This was the case in only one in five (18%) of the erroneous papers.
The average number of authors on all retracted papers was three, but some had 10 or more. Faked research papers were significantly more likely to have multiple authors.
Each first author who was a repeat fraudster had an average of six co-authors, each of whom had had another three retractions.
"The duplicity of some authors is cause for concern," comments the author. Retraction is the strongest sanction that can be applied to published research, but currently, "[it] is a very blunt instrument used for offences both gravely serious and trivial."
Provided by British Medical Journal (news : web)

http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-scientists-significantly-publish-fake.html./



Aevory, don't you know that to many people science is not bogus and scientists are no liars? To them these are educated men and women that are seeking to answer our needs and concerns.


They believe that these people called scientists have done the research in all instances. People have faith in their scientistsnd teachers aevory. Everything that a scientists publishes is an official truth and is presented as such.


These same people also believe that mankind is basically good and that science would only be used to help mankind. They can't fathom the use of science to control people; and yes lies are a part of that.


With science there's a lot of disinformation involved. I think any rational person could see that.


Science is bittersweet while Jesus is pure and holy Truth.


You are right, ronnie.

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#195735 - 11/27/10 08:08 PM Re: Scientific Research --- Bogus [Re: ævory]
ghoti
Member


Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
Originally Posted By: ævory
Originally Posted By: ghoti


No individual scientific report or theory is ever fully accepted until it has been checked and duplicated by a large number of fellow researchers. Only things that have been thoroughly corroborated are accepted, otherwise it's rejected.



I got one word for you: MARS

ok...I'll give you two: MARS and CANALS



A perfect example of how science corrects erronious theories as soon as new information comes in. What's your point?
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.

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#195759 - 11/29/10 06:20 AM Re: Scientific Research --- Bogus [Re: ghoti]
ævory
Member


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
My point of posting any and all (with exception, and if you read me enough then you'll have to find those ones) the science and scientific work and research stuff that doesn't 'pan out' or isn't correct is just to goad you.

simple

Just to show you what you and shakey (for one..or, rather, two, here) do when you come to the religion forum to dis Jesus' name and the faith of others here in the Word of the Bible.

You don't use logic...you claim, always, to have logic and reasoning behind your debates AND SCIENCE ON YOUR SIDE and it is all false logic. If you really look into the art of using logic, you can see that what you are doing, (as if one doesn't have a clue just by reading the idiot stuff here on this forum) is really not the right tool for job of debating on a religion (faith) forum.

I have no idea what it does for a "Your Religion Sucks" forum, like that on PowerQuad....but, you are more or less pissing in the wind on this one. It isn't really quite logical to say that your logic and reasoning works here. Just read around all you can about the use of logic. And nothing says that an argument has to make use of logic. As if that is an all or nothing and the difference between someone smart and someone who may be an old coot...............get my drift, ghoti? flicka? shakey? blisterink? anyone?

It's ridiculous and bothersome and not really worth the time or effort. But of course, you can keep on keepin on.........proving the bible is just a book, religious congregation is for the birds, Jesus is just a man...and all that rot. It's blasphemy, to me.

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#195760 - 11/29/10 06:29 AM Re: Scientific Research --- Bogus [Re: ævory]
ævory
Member


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
It was believed for many decades that because someone saw something ...some lines or such on the planet Mars they had some form of life going on there. The fact they named them canals did that. It was...what? What do you call that in the scientific realm of things? And what do you call it then...in the realm of 'what people want to believe'. If you answer both questions, truthfully, then you see that logical, scientific proof(? ...yeah, ha!) just does not mix with FAITH. Why do you bother? ...if not to just be a troll and goad people.
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#195763 - 11/29/10 09:05 AM Re: Scientific Research --- Bogus [Re: ævory]
ghoti
Member


Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
It was Percival Lowell who started the canal idea back in the 1800's. He owned the world's most powerful telescope at the time, but images of Mars and other objects are always blurred by air currents in the atmosphere no matter how good the magnification.

He saw those blurry features and thought he could make out lines connecting them, so he drew a series of maps showing canals. Because he was a very prominent figure, many people accepted his ideas even though othe observers couldn't duplicate his observations.

Skepticism among serious astronomers grew over the canal idea throughout the late 1800's and early 1900's, and by the time the space program got going no one took it seriously any more since it couldn't be duplicated. Final absolute proof came when pictures of Mars from space showed it covered with craters and other features but no canals.

Like I said, a perfect example of how science is self-correcting.

Yours very truly,
Snide old bastard
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.

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#195764 - 11/29/10 10:13 AM Re: Scientific Research --- Bogus [Re: ghoti]
ghoti
Member


Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
Ronda, this forum is open to people of ALL faiths and religions, not just fundamentalist Christians. When people come on here and make statements implying their beliefs are superior to those of others then they will get folks who disagree, and it isn't just me.

That hardly constitutes "goading".

Yours very truly,
Snide old bastard
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.

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#195779 - 11/29/10 12:56 PM Re: Scientific Research --- Bogus [Re: ævory]
flicka
Member


Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
Originally Posted By: ævory
As if that is an all or nothing and the difference between someone smart and someone who may be an old coot...............get my drift, ghoti? flicka? shakey? blisterink? anyone?

No, I don't get your drift. I, personally, do not think faith has any connection to being smart, or not...
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#195790 - 11/29/10 02:13 PM Re: Scientific Research --- Bogus [Re: flicka]
ghoti
Member


Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
Ronda, of course knowledge and faith are unrelated. Many people feel the more they know about how amazingly complex the world really is, the more they see the hand of a creator or at least some powerful organizing force behind it all.

IMO when you study the intricacy of DNA replication, the ways elements combine to form new compounds, the formation of energy within a star by hydrogen fusion, etc., etc. it's hard to imagine this all came about by sheer randomness.

Yours very truly,
Snide old bastard


Edited by ghoti (11/29/10 02:14 PM)
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