#195839 - 11/30/10 06:04 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I think most people just scan the bible when reading and don't give a thought to adding the third dimension by associatng thoughts, scriptures and themes together too get a more full picture. You have to read it enough to where when reading a scripture you recall similar scriptures and compare and see if there is an associative theme or added clarity. At least that is the way I read the bible. It is a three or multi dimensional book that can never be totally fathomed in a man's lifetime. I guess we are all different in the way we view things and we have to be true to the scriptures and our selves in understanding it all.
Paul
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#195841 - 11/30/10 06:28 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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I think most people just scan the bible when reading and don't give a thought to adding the third dimension by associatng thoughts, scriptures and themes together too get a more full picture.
I'm not just talking about myself. I am considering how could it be possible that the Apostles and the early church fathers overlooked such an important eschatological event? They couldn't if it is as plain as you seem to think it is. The truth is that this theory did not exist until the 1800s and is a product of man, not God.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#195845 - 11/30/10 10:09 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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It is a product from the apostle Paul as given him from Jesus Christ. The early church was well aware of the rapture because Paul preached it. The later church just did not pick up on it till later. It is not a recent idea but came down from the early church when the Apostles were still alive and working. You have been listening to what others have been errantly saying about Darby that he was the first, BUT he was not the first but only one of a long strng of believers n the rapture from the early church on down.
Paul
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#195878 - 12/01/10 06:32 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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The early church was well aware of the rapture because Paul preached it. The later church just did not pick up on it till later. It is not a recent idea but came down from the early church when the Apostles were still alive and working.
Conclusion
Going back to the title of this study: "When did the Apostle Paul Begin to Preach the Pre-tribulation (Any-Moment) Coming of Christ?" we are obliged to conclude that as far as the New Testament record is concerned there is no indication anywhere that he ever did begin to preach it. Those who insist that he did, must engage in some peculiar methods of exegesis for as this paper has clearly shown there is not point in his ministry when he could have preached such a doctrine. In the chronological outline of his life and work there are always certain events on the horizon than must be fulfilled which would completely contradict the whole theory of any-momentism. How long will those who preach the any-moment unheralded pre-tribulation coming of Christ continue to evade this problem? It is time that this novel nineteenth century doctrinal innovation be exposed for what it is, namely, a perversion of the teaching of Holy Scripture. Let Bible students be guided solely by the principle of "what saith the Scripture?" and may we rest assured that pre-tribulationism will soon be recognized as a fabrication of the human mind without any biblical basis.
Edited by flicka (12/01/10 06:33 PM)
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#195891 - 12/02/10 12:22 AM
Re: Strange..
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Flicka you are just blind to the evidence in the bible andf the people tyhrough the centuries who have preached a pre trib rapture. You know the scripture Paul wrote when he said I show you a mystery, we shall not all sleep but the dead in christ shall rise first then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up to be with the Lord forever. In so many words. Jesus said He did not want His church to be in the tribulation and that He would remove them prior to the time of Jacobs trouble..meaning Israels trouble in the final day of the Lord.
Any belief other than the pre trib rapture is definately flat out wrong!
Paul
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#195894 - 12/02/10 06:51 AM
Re: Strange..
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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Any belief other than the pre trib rapture is definately flat out wrong!
Paul
I think you are definately flat out wrong. The word "rapture" does not appear in the Bible. There is not scripture to back up what you believe. Believe what you want of course but don't claim you have Scripture to back it up when it doesn't exist. 
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"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
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#195897 - 12/02/10 12:25 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Flicka you are just blind to the evidence in the bible
Read the webpage I linked to see there is NO evidence that Paul preached a secret rapture. None.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#195899 - 12/02/10 01:01 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Dr.Hudson is an over educated idiotof the frst degree. The Catholic biible has the rappiamore (sp) which is the equivalent of rapture. No matter what you say scriptures written ofPaul'ssayings definately shows a pre trib rapture and is backed up by other scriptures concerning the church and the antichrist. Beliefve whatyou want butif you can't see the truth of those scriptures you just aren't looking and thinking.
Paul
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#195902 - 12/02/10 01:27 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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inkblister
Member
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 231
Loc: Land of Debris...
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Jesus to return on May 21, 2011
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I'm not outnumbered... I have a wide target selection...
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#195903 - 12/02/10 01:59 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: inkblister]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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May 21, hey. Dang it, that's sure going to mess up all our plans for next summer. 'Course with all the Christians gone the traffic will be a lot lighter and it should solve the unemployment problem so I guess there's some upside.
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#195904 - 12/02/10 02:28 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Beliefve whatyou want butif you can't see the truth of those scriptures you just aren't looking and thinking.
What do you think of this guy's prediction?
According to Camping's prediction, the Rapture will happen exactly 7,000 years from the date that God first warned people about the flood. He said the flood happened in 4990 B.C., on what would have been May 21 in the modern calendar. God gave Noah one week of warning.
Since one day equals 1,000 years for God, that means there was a 7,000-year interval between the flood and rapture.
"We hope that anyone would get a Bible out and try and prove that this is wrong," he said.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#195905 - 12/02/10 04:52 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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They say God gave Noah one weeks warning of the flood. I don't think so. God told Noah to build an ark to His specifications because He was going to flood the earth to destroy mankind. From what I know Noah took a few years to gather materials and build the ark while preaching that God was going to flood the earth, not one week! So that knocks out their selection of 7000 years as a time frame. Besides the bible says we will only know the season of His return due to prophecies being fulfilled, never the day nor the hour...even Jesus does not know that exact time, only God the Father.
If He did return on that exact date it would only be a fluke. Not likely, but He could return at any time as all prophecy has been fulfilled for the event to take place. The gospel going around the world and people turning to god is what is holding the return up but when the final person accepts, Jesus will be sent down for us.
Paul
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#195908 - 12/02/10 06:53 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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The gospel going around the world and people turning to god is what is holding the return up but when the final person accepts, Jesus will be sent down for us.
Final person accepts what?
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#195909 - 12/02/10 07:33 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: flicka]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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I think most people just scan the bible when reading and don't give a thought to adding the third dimension by associatng thoughts, scriptures and themes together too get a more full picture. I'm not just talking about myself. I am considering how could it be possible that the Apostles and the early church fathers overlooked such an important eschatological event? They couldn't if it is as plain as you seem to think it is. The truth is that this theory did not exist until the 1800s and is a product of man, not God.
The apostles worked in differing ways so I dont' see that as a surprise. And for the priests...no surprise there. I'm sure they weren't any different than priests and church heads of today in that they aren't all in the way of hearing when they fill their minds with that which THEY want to preach/teach. Prophecies are thru-out the bible...old testament and new. many prophecies..
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#195910 - 12/02/10 07:41 PM
Re: Strange..
[Re: flicka]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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Flicka you are just blind to the evidence in the bible Read the webpage I linked to see there is NO evidence that Paul preached a secret rapture. None.
No, Paul didn't teach a secret rapture and from reading this board i dont' see anyone saying he did. What is revealed is there in many parts of the Bible, the Bible is an open book and no cult type secrecy existed/exists. The only thing I ever read was that in the very end there IS a closed chapter or book...papers...that no one Will know til the end.
And yes, the dead will rise first. Then those who are alive on earth that see the light and even those who are dead FIRST whom were dead in belief...WILL rise before Jesus comes back for the rest of us. Paul in Thessalonica speaks of it.
And the Jews...well they surely didn't believe in the whole Jesus is Messaiha (spelling sucks cus i'm tired) cus of more than just a lack of belief..there were other reasons, but then Paul also went on from Thessalonica to ...i forget, but it'sin ACTS 17 or so where the Jews were much more open to learning and hearing Paul's message.
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