#195593 - 11/22/10 01:55 PM
Re: Oh Dear God!
[Re: ghoti]
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ronniechoate34
Member
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
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Ghoti, one day we all will stand before God. Why must you choose to believe in mankind instead of a true redeemer of your spirit, one Jesus Christ?
Man is fallen ghoti. Men are hopelessley evil, wicked incarnate and if left to our own devices we will only continue to fester.
Edited by ronniechoate34 (11/22/10 01:56 PM)
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#195602 - 11/22/10 02:20 PM
Re: Oh Dear God!
[Re: ronniechoate34]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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You believe there is some organizing force behind creation? Ghoti if you truly believe the entity you spoke to was the creator I don't think you would be looking at nature in an attempt to communicate with the creator of it all. You would know with out any weakness in faith that you had spoken to him directly and you would not still be looking for answers in nature and science. That is why I think we need to question any supernatural or such contacts. Satan can appear as an angel of light to anyone. I am not saying that is what happened to you but you do need to question that experience and not allow it to become the foundation of your beliefs. God wants us to find Him by searching for Him with a strong desire to find Him and His rules for life since He created us. It is a very difficult and tenuous trip, not a goal that comes easily but for christians it is simply accepting His gift of salvation to mankind through His son Jesus and so easy a child can do it. Any other path is tenuous and hard and who knows what the results will lead too. We must all choose eternity, wisely because in the end we will stand before our eternal Judge to explain our lives. Or we will just cease to exist. The only hope for mankind is faith. Choose wisely.
Paul
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#195615 - 11/22/10 03:12 PM
Re: Oh Dear God!
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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All I can say is that my vision was totally real and convincing to me, but I don't expect anyone else to just accept it for themselves. There are far too many charlatans using religion to enrich themselves or mislead others out there, and IMO each person should rely on what's inside their own heart rather than blindly following anyone else.
I have my own strong convictions that there is one and only one true creator, that he is totally loving and kind, and he wants us to treat each other that way, too. That message was strongly communicated to me and I try in my own poor and flawed way to follow it. If you choose to put your faith in Jesus and the trinity of the Bible then I respect that, since that is the pathway that works for you.
Just don't go around telling others that they are wrong and you are right. You have zero authority for such a position other than your personal beliefs, and I guarantee you that mine are just as strong as anyone else's.
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#195616 - 11/22/10 03:17 PM
Re: Oh Dear God!
[Re: ronniechoate34]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Ghoti, one day we all will stand before God. Why must you choose to believe in mankind instead of a true redeemer of your spirit, one Jesus Christ?
Man is fallen ghoti. Men are hopelessley evil, wicked incarnate and if left to our own devices we will only continue to fester.
Ronnie, my experiences with others has been that the vast majority of people are kindly and compassionate when treated that way in return. If you're convinced that all people are "hopelessly evil" then you sure hang out with different folks than I do.
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#195655 - 11/23/10 01:42 AM
Re: Oh Dear God!
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Ghoti I don't say anyone is wrong on their personal paths but Jesus Himself said He is the only way to heaven and that any other way would be like theives and robbers trying to break in. I am just quoting what Jesus said in the bible and I suspect that is why so many people religious and otherwise deny the deity that Jesus says He is the son of God. That way they can accept His good teachings on loving our fellow man and not worry about the other things He said concernng Him being part of the triune Godhead. They accept the parts of the bible fits their own views and dismiss the rest as mythology and such. Guess that is the difference between fundamentalists and all other religious groups that don't hold with a literal interpretation of the bible as the word of God. Even many of those will have read and understood and made the connection for repentance and salvation though denying much of the bible as truth. I think most christians, especially fundamentalists, are deemed to be saying other religions and spiritual ways are false. We are not to condemn those who see a different path, though many off us do just this and turn many people off from searching truth from the bible. I don't know the answer to that dilemna. In the end we all choose our own pathways to eternity. Just pray God will be merciful to His creation on that final judgement day.
Paul
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#195656 - 11/23/10 03:12 AM
Re: Oh Dear God!
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Yet your only "proof" is that the Bible says so, and that isn't convincing to me and many others. You have chosen to believe it, and yet my personal vision tells me it isn't true.
I prefer to accept and believe what was told to me in that vision rather than what it says in your book. The Bible is only one out of innumerable other holy books that ALL claim to be the word of God. You've chosen believe this book and people living in different cultures and times have chosen very different ones.
So you can keep telling me that Jesus is the only pathway to salvation, but you're never going to convince me. All I've ever asked is that we at least show enough respect for each others beliefs to not waste our time trying to make religious converts.
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#195659 - 11/23/10 09:05 AM
Re: Oh Dear God!
[Re: ghoti]
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ronniechoate34
Member
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
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Ghoti, one day we all will stand before God. Why must you choose to believe in mankind instead of a true redeemer of your spirit, one Jesus Christ?
Man is fallen ghoti. Men are hopelessley evil, wicked incarnate and if left to our own devices we will only continue to fester. Ronnie, my experiences with others has been that the vast majority of people are kindly and compassionate when treated that way in return. If you're convinced that all people are "hopelessly evil" then you sure hang out with different folks than I do.
Sin is here to stay until the rightousness of God shines through. I tell you what, ghoti. No man is good and we all have an inclination towards evil. And if you don't believe that then you are not only lying to yourself but you've also got the devil deceiving you too.
There is a way that seems right to men but it's not the rightousness of God at work. It's double minded men who pretend that they can have both good and evil that are causing many problems in this world today.
If you don't accept the rightousness of Jesus Christ, repent and receive the Holy Ghost then you are never gonna see this truth. I pray that God removes the scales from your eyes before it is too late.
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#195660 - 11/23/10 10:08 AM
Re: Oh Dear God!
[Re: ronniechoate34]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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So I was told to show kindness and compassion to others but my message came from Satan, and you think your belief in Jesus allows you to go around condemning and judging others. Is that what you're saying?
Seems like something is wrong in your reasoning there.
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#195661 - 11/23/10 11:16 AM
Re: Oh Dear God!
[Re: ghoti]
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ronniechoate34
Member
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
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Theosophy is also Luciferian, theosophists see Lucifer as the opressed god of light. While the God of the Bible is presented as the god of evil and darkness. They believe in proper human relations and they believe in a convergence of the world religions. They believe that all paths lead to god. Also,they seek to dedicate the world to Lucifer.
Does any of this sound familiar?
Personally I think it's a dead end and a diversion. I believe that the ultimate goal is to bring terror and death upon those people who do not go with the flow.
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#195662 - 11/23/10 11:23 AM
Re: Oh Dear God!
[Re: ronniechoate34]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Only your opinion, Ronnie. It carries no authority with me at all. Christianity has certainly been used to bring terror to plenty of people over the ages, and that goes totally against my philosophy.
My beliefs bring me peace and serenity. Can you say the same for yours?
Edited by ghoti (11/23/10 11:25 AM)
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#195663 - 11/23/10 11:37 AM
Re: Oh Dear God!
[Re: ronniechoate34]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#195666 - 11/23/10 01:35 PM
Re: Oh Dear God!
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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But all things work together for good for those who love God! Looking at Jesus as just a man removes any chance of salvation for eternal life. That is the way Jesus see's it as recorded in the bible. So without Jesus as Lord we are free to pick and choose our own path and live just as we like. Que Se Ra,Se Ra. :-)
Peace
Paul
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#195672 - 11/23/10 05:11 PM
Re: Oh Dear God!
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paul I
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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Flicka, it sounds like God is a puppeteer.
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#195673 - 11/23/10 05:12 PM
Re: Oh Dear God!
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paul I
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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Flicka, is God a puppeteer?
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"...only the shadow knows"
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#195675 - 11/24/10 01:01 AM
Re: Oh Dear God!
[Re: Paul I]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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I don't think so, Paul I. In fact, when we look at nature, it seems obvious that once anything is 'created', it is on its own to survive.
Plato would say that what God is describing in the verse from Isaiah was the invisibe world of 'forms'. This is the place where our knowledge of what things look like comes from. In this realm, all that exists is in perfect form.
For example, when we visualize a circle, we imagine it as it exists in the invisible realm, but applying it to the visible world removes its perfection.
If you draw a circle, differences in the thickness in the line will change as lead is removed from the point of the pencil. Or, the amount of pressure we apply to the paper will make a difference in its perfection. Plato believed this applied to all visible things. We cannot be perfect in this visible realm. He had some pretty impressives theories.
Edited by flicka (11/24/10 01:12 AM)
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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