#194272 - 10/18/10 06:57 PM
Re: Hitchens Brothers Agree To Disagree Over God
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I am locked into the tenets of my doctrine of religion that I follow and the words of the creator this religion is formed around. I have to go with Jesus saying there is no way to God other than through Him and that is what I believe. However there is much we don't know, such as whether Jesus presents Himself to everyone passing out of this life with a chance to change their mind. I don't know whether it is true or not so therefore we cannot say whether a person is lost nor not. We may know how they lived their lives whether by God's rules or not and know that if they continued that same direction into death that they are probably lost and going to hell or headed for paradise.
According to the words of Jesus there are many religions that will not save a person so they may live with their creator for eternity. If that is the case and followed into death they are lost. I know people following those religions will be faunching and fuming at that statement but by Jesus own words it is true for my doctrine. There is no reason I need to apologise for the doctrine I follow. Does it make me sad? Sure it does and I may pass on the gospel I believe in but unless tghat person is receptive it will not make any difference, but I will have done my part and tried.
Thank you Ronda, but concerning other religions and beliefs, there is much about the passing over that we don't have a clue about and God says we are not to judge, that is His domain. As far as Ghoti's experience only he knows what he experienced and must make of it what he will as I do my experiences. I have not ever really testified or explained in detail my experiences in church. For one, people might view it as an ego trip or bragging, if they have not had similar experiences, for another reason there is no way of proving those experiences to anyone and they are not really valid except to myself. It is not an arguing matter and was pretty much for me alone. It does increase a persons faith dramatically though in their beliefs. Thus for Ghoti and myself and many others our experiences are pretty much unshakeable by those who doubt us.
Paul
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#194273 - 10/18/10 07:07 PM
Re: Hitchens Brothers Agree To Disagree Over God
[Re: shakey56]
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ronniechoate34
Member
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
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What a buncha bull Ronda! Ghoti didn't attack anybody or there parents. If Paul doesn't feel badly for condemning others, there is no hope for him, and anything anyone says won't faze him.
Everybody knows Ronnie is a fool, and his words carry no weight here. Which is why your post surprises me, I don't recall the thread you refer to. Can you post a link to it.
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#194276 - 10/18/10 07:45 PM
Re: Hitchens Brothers Agree To Disagree Over God
[Re: ronniechoate34]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Everybody knows Ronnie is a fool, and his words carry no weight here. Which is why your post surprises me, I don't recall the thread you refer to. Can you post a link to it.
Okay, I'm defending Ronnie here, I say he's not a complete fool. Ronnie does not believe he will escape this life by being raptured.
I don't recall a Masonary thread either?
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#194277 - 10/18/10 08:53 PM
Re: Hitchens Brothers Agree To Disagree Over God
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Ronnie don't belive in the rapture, Flicka? Hope you guys don't soil your undies when you fire off earth at the blink of an eye!!!!!:-)
Paul
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#194370 - 10/19/10 07:43 AM
Re: Hitchens Brothers Agree To Disagree Over God
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ronniechoate34
Member
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
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I believe that there will be some people snatched from the earth to meet Jesus in the air. I don't believe that it will be a pre tribulation rapture.
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#194372 - 10/19/10 07:54 AM
Re: Hitchens Brothers Agree To Disagree Over God
[Re: ghoti]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[/quote]
Saturday night I was at my sis's house and had a martini (empty stomach) and heavy antibiotics (3rd day) so.......I was talking about as fast and free as my sis or bro-in-law were. We got onto the topic of my grand-niece (my sis's granddaughter) and she said that she was starting to get perturbed cus my bil's mother keeps saying that the child needs to get baptized cus God forbid something should happen to her, if she died, she would go to hell. The child is one + years old.
My sis (who was the one to convert to Catholicism, gladly, when she married) says she doesn't believe that. And then she says that she herself was baptized twice! I was Shocked. No way! I have no recollection of that, growing up together. Well, it happened when she was going to the Presbyterian church and I, for some reason, wasn't going to that church...maybe I was still going to the Methodist church. ANYWAY, the Catholic priest (or whoever) told my sister she had to get baptized in the Catholic church before she could be considered for Catholic conversion...that they did not accept the baptism from past. So she did, she got baptized, now twice!
I said, God, I can't believe this cus I've no memory of it! Well....do you think I am going to Hell cus I've never been baptized??? She nearly screamed NO! Do YOU? I said...NO.
Then she looks at my bro-in-law (7 yrs older than she) and asks him if he believed like his mother, that the grandbaby would go to Hell w/o being baptized. He said, "She'll go to limbo. Not Hell."...........well, that isn't what my sister thinks. BUT, anyWays....he also said, "You have your beliefs and I have mine." I did not ask my bil if he thought I'd go to Hell. It matters not a drop to me...not much of a drop as to what anyone thinks about me going to Hell. I know what I believe and am solidly comfortable and happy with my beliefs. So anyone can say whatever they want.
When the personal insults get posted, all it does is show one's own ugliness and inability to discuss anything. And I know of plenty of postings here where I was happy and upbeat about something that happened to me which I considered as happening because of the hand of God and I can tell you exActly who was around to put it down with personal insults. Don't try to muscle folk out cus it doesn't work. If you've a compulsion to do so then you should talk to the administrator(?) or owner of this board about becoming chief moderator, cus I don't see a chair sitting out here with anyone's name on it.
You cannot change peoples' beliefs. If it is that upsetting to you, to shakey, to dildo, to whoever! then they should find something that doesn't bug them ..and go do it cus This kind of hounding and constantly being on another's back is what keeps people from participating. More time spent posting your own views and less time posting about degrading insults on a personal level because of different viewpoints is needed. You seem to think that Paulwa (that type of poster...ronnie) causes people to leave or not participate but it is the back and forth slamming that does it. Plus, you just want to see them stoop to that level so you can say how they are.
What is the point of me posting this? Because it happened...I'm attesting to it...and I trust my own beliefs; if someone says or believes one thing and I don't (especially where my religious beliefs come in) I work at strengthening that belief I have -- partially through more reading of the Bible -- and partially, simply ..to let it be. Let the other voices be part of everything because we are all connected.
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#194385 - 10/19/10 11:05 AM
Re: Hitchens Brothers Agree To Disagree Over God
[Re: ævory]
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Deo
Member
Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 127
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Thanks for your post aevory. We are all connected. I post because I am reaching out to my brothers/sisters. You are all an extended family.
Deo
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#194391 - 10/19/10 01:09 PM
Re: Hitchens Brothers Agree To Disagree Over God
[Re: Deo]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Paulwa and I have been carrying on pretty much the same banter back and forth for many years now. I've learned a lot from him and consider him a friend, and I hope the feeling is mutual. Our discussions have at times been the only thing keeping this forum going, and if people find it boring or offensive you can always just go elsewhere.
The ONLY thing I've ever asked from him and others is that we all show respect for the beliefs of others and not go around putting other people down for not conforming. I try to follow that myself and have always attempted to be respectful toward others, although preaching and excessive proselytyzing gets me riled at times.
Diversity of opinions is a good thing, and we can all learn from each other by keeping conversations calm and civil. I think you'll find that's a hallmark of all successful boards where religious matters are discussed, even those dedicated solely to Christians.
_________________________
Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#194394 - 10/19/10 01:21 PM
Re: Hitchens Brothers Agree To Disagree Over God
[Re: ghoti]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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I've never said anybody's belief system is wrong. I have challenged aspects of those systems that do not fit with what we know today. I will continue to do this. When ppl refuse to accept proven facts, and accept dogma that is disproved by those facts, they are either willfully ignorant or just plain stupid. Paul and Ronnie make it a habit of saying their way is the only way and dising all other belief systems.
_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#194396 - 10/19/10 01:29 PM
Re: Hitchens Brothers Agree To Disagree Over God
[Re: shakey56]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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It is not our way Shakey, it is Jesus, the son of God's way.
Paul
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#194399 - 10/19/10 01:44 PM
Re: Hitchens Brothers Agree To Disagree Over God
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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And that works for you, Paulwa, and I respect that and wouldn't want you to change. I happen to disagree, but do not want or expect others to follow my lead.
IMO Whatever spiritual pathway a person finds that brings them serenity and humility is a good thing, and if it brings anger and arrogance instead it's a bad thing.
_________________________
Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#194404 - 10/19/10 02:12 PM
Re: Hitchens Brothers Agree To Disagree Over God
[Re: ghoti]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Well Paul, you are the one posting here not Jesus. I suspect Jesus would be much more tolerant.
_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#194413 - 10/19/10 03:25 PM
Re: Hitchens Brothers Agree To Disagree Over God
[Re: shakey56]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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Well Paul, you are the one posting here not Jesus. I suspect Jesus would be much more tolerant.
How does one be tolerant when no one listens or hears? If you don't hear then you don't listen. If you don't listen then you have nothing of which to test your tolerance on.
Shakey, you think Jesus is a joke....a nonexistent silly bunch of whOee. You have told us that over and again. You really want to base your statement of what you suspect on a joke? Do you joke for fun or to make a point? What point are you making based upon your joke? It IS your joke. You defined it. ...maybe ghoti's joke, I don't know...maybe anothers' joke, could be....but all the jokes in the world can't make what you suspect true, can it?
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#194417 - 10/19/10 03:46 PM
Re: Hitchens Brothers Agree To Disagree Over God
[Re: ævory]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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I never said Jesus was a joke. I have repeatedly said it is possible that Jesus or any other supposed God is not a God, or he or they could be. Nobody knows for sure. What is a joke is anybody who says they do know.
I strongly suspect there is no God other than the ones man has invnted, but I, just like everybody else, don't know for sure.
_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#194436 - 10/19/10 04:45 PM
Re: Hitchens Brothers Agree To Disagree Over God
[Re: shakey56]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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Well, you vacilate between your strength of belief about it from time to time, also, depending on the one you quote or dis or..
So I apologize. But I think I should copy/paste it to my Word processor for future occasions. ahh...too much trouble. It WAS?IS a good line of attack/debate...err whatever it is we do here.
*niteALL...specially Corey. ha!  finally...someone stepped up and spoke what they think besides the bunch of us here. and as usual, I pretty much like what Corey has to say. Now don't take that out on him. I will be gone for a while.
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