#193877 - 10/10/10 04:43 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Joel:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#193885 - 10/10/10 05:51 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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My opinion but the prophet was speaking to Israel and the remnant God will call..the 144,000 from the twelve tribes and I think those coming out of the seven year great tribulation who did not take the mark of the beast and called on Jesus to save them.
Paul
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#193889 - 10/10/10 11:33 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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IMO all this dueling scripture is proof that the Bible was just written by men and not directly by God. Many passages simply contradict each other and there's no clear-cut message, so you can just pick whichever ones suits you.
Seriously, if someone today published a brand new book that was as obtuse and convuluted as the Bible and claimed it was the exact word of God they'd get laughed at. IMO the only reason anyone really believes in the Bible is because of long-standing tradition.
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#193890 - 10/11/10 12:13 AM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ævory]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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This implies that there is only one kind of gnosis (knowing) - the religious kind. That's one person's opinion,'and if it brings you true peace and serenity then I'm glad for you. But knowing the creator can take another form entirely - studying his creation; the glories of the entire universe. This means that your mindset is that the best way to know the creator is to become as knowledgeable about nature and science as possible. Unfortunately this approach to gnosis is difficult and requires constant study, while the religious gnosis is very simple and nearly effortless. IMO that's the reason it's more popular and forms the basis of most religions, while scientific gnosis is far less common. Given a choice, most folks take the easy way out. I like this approach to religion and try to follow it myself: http://www.churchofreality.org/wisdom/welcome_home/ Implies? I posted the poem because it reached a part of my core beliefs while reading it and i think it most beautiful and serene and I didn't consider that anyone would take it as a means of debating/arguing gnostism or gnostic this or that, but clearly you have effectively confused me with your post and I believe you've dismissed it's implication meant by me. I'm not even sure that I have an understanding of the word gnostic....I thought all readers of my post would enjoy what was there so by implying the original poem or the internet poster before me who shared the poem was implying anything is beyond me. You've lost its meaning on me with your scientific gnosis mentioning ( nature/naturalistic gnosis?). But since you are deliniating between forms of knowledge then explain your understanding of the word gnostic and/or gnostism for me, please.
Ronda, if your beliefs bring you peace and serenity then I'm sincerely happy for you. Mine do that for me, and we just happen to prefer a different approach. I'm not trying to convert you since I respect your right to believe as you wish, and I'd just like the same in return.
"Gnosis" is the Greek word for knowledge and doesn't necessarily have a religious context. The Gnostics were a very early Christian sect who believed that the best way to know the message of Jesus was to study nature and themselves. They were very brutally suppressed by the developing Catholic church back in the third or fourth century, IMO largely because their philosophy required no churches or priests to make easy money from telling people what to believe.
The horrific and murderous way the early church leaders suppressed Gnosticism, Arianism, and several other competing views of Jesus in those early days is a strong indication to me that much of modern Christianity is likely a perversion of his true message.
_________________________
Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#193892 - 10/11/10 07:55 AM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ghoti]
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ronniechoate34
Member
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
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I've gotta tell y'all that there are times when I would like to just pour some common sense into your heads and make you all understand. But that's not going to happen because only God can reveal the truth and not me.
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#193893 - 10/11/10 08:43 AM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ronniechoate34]
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MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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I've gotta tell ya Ronnie that there are times when I would like to just pour some common sense into your head and make you understand. But that's not going to happen because with you, common sense ain't common. 
If what you believe makes you happy, wonderful. However, your insistence that you are the only one who "knows" is offensive. IMO you have a limited and uneducated understanding of Christianity. You offer nothing but hatred and intolerance. If your goal is to bring people to Christianity, you are failing miserably.
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"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
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#193894 - 10/11/10 08:45 AM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ronniechoate34]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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It must be terribly frustrating that people refuse to bow down before the infinite wisdom of the great Ronnie. Makes you really, really pissed, I bet.
People like you who are convinced that they and only they know the mind and will of the creator are dangerous megalomaniacs and have caused untold amounts of death and suffering in this world. I pity your wife and children for what they must endure from you.
_________________________
Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#193895 - 10/11/10 08:46 AM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ronniechoate34]
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Deo
Member
Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 127
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I've gotta tell y'all that there are times when I would like to just pour some common sense into your heads and make you all understand. But that's not going to happen because only God can reveal the truth and not me.
Hi Ronnie, thanks for the offer. I would listen to someone who displays humility. You seem to be lacking that. Quoting scripture does nothing for me.
Tell us something about yourself.
I'm 47, male, athiest with a rare genetic disease with has caused my disability.
Deo
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#193897 - 10/11/10 11:07 AM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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starlight.2
Member
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 793
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The bible, Flicka, says if you reject the deity and salvation of Jesus you will go to hades.
HADES is from the ancient greek god of the underworld. aren't you mixing your mythologies? 
_________________________
Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace.
--Dalai Lama
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#193898 - 10/11/10 11:08 AM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: Deo]
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starlight.2
Member
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 793
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I've gotta tell y'all that there are times when I would like to just pour some common sense into your heads and make you all understand. But that's not going to happen because only God can reveal the truth and not me.
Hi Ronnie, thanks for the offer. I would listen to someone who displays humility. You seem to be lacking that. Quoting scripture does nothing for me. Tell us something about yourself. I'm 47, male, athiest with a rare genetic di :)sease with has caused my disability. Deo
hi, always nice to meet one fellow infidel.
_________________________
Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace.
--Dalai Lama
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#193899 - 10/11/10 11:21 AM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ghoti]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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This implies that there is only one kind of gnosis (knowing) - the religious kind. That's one person's opinion,'and if it brings you true peace and serenity then I'm glad for you. But knowing the creator can take another form entirely - studying his creation; the glories of the entire universe. This means that your mindset is that the best way to know the creator is to become as knowledgeable about nature and science as possible. Unfortunately this approach to gnosis is difficult and requires constant study, while the religious gnosis is very simple and nearly effortless. IMO that's the reason it's more popular and forms the basis of most religions, while scientific gnosis is far less common. Given a choice, most folks take the easy way out. I like this approach to religion and try to follow it myself: http://www.churchofreality.org/wisdom/welcome_home/ Implies? I posted the poem because it reached a part of my core beliefs while reading it and i think it most beautiful and serene and I didn't consider that anyone would take it as a means of debating/arguing gnostism or gnostic this or that, but clearly you have effectively confused me with your post and I believe you've dismissed it's implication meant by me. I'm not even sure that I have an understanding of the word gnostic....I thought all readers of my post would enjoy what was there so by implying the original poem or the internet poster before me who shared the poem was implying anything is beyond me. You've lost its meaning on me with your scientific gnosis mentioning ( nature/naturalistic gnosis?). But since you are deliniating between forms of knowledge then explain your understanding of the word gnostic and/or gnostism for me, please. I'm not trying to convert you since I respect your right to believe as you wish, and I'd just like the same in return.
I don't think that you understood my post............the first one, or the second one, so I'll just close out on this.
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#193906 - 10/11/10 01:12 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ævory]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Hades is a word also used in the bible, too, Starlght. I think it just means the grave but there is much beyond that word.
Paul
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#193908 - 10/11/10 05:34 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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... and I think those coming out of the seven year great tribulation who did not take the mark of the beast and called on Jesus to save them.
People who lived prior to Jesus were sentenced to hell?
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#193912 - 10/11/10 07:24 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Remember when Jesus died on the cross? He also went down to hades and took the keys to the gates of hell and ministered to all those in Abraham's bosom who would accept Him as their saviour and judged them then took all souls that day to heaven where he moved paradise, to await the rapture and resurrection of the dead to their new bodies. We who are alive and remain will be caught up secondly with new bodies such as Christ has to be with our Lord forever more. All from beginning to the end of the age will have a chance to accept Jesus as King and Lord of eternity.
Paul
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#193913 - 10/11/10 09:11 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Remember when Jesus died on the cross? He also went down to hades and took the keys to the gates of hell and ministered to all those in Abraham's bosom who would accept Him as their saviour and judged them then took all souls that day to heaven where he moved paradise,
Why did Jesus say this to the thief on the cross in that case?
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
So you believe every one who died before Christ has already been judged?
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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