#193805 - 10/08/10 12:43 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: Lola]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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According to Jesus, all who do not accept His sacrifice and acknowledge Him as their Lord and saviour will be lost forever. It remains to be seen as to what being lost will entail but Jesus admonishes all to avoid that fate at any cost. So knowing of Jesus and even seeing Him as the son of God will not save you...only repentance and accepting Him as your Lord and saviour is the only way to be with God for eternity in His kingdom.
Paul
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#193809 - 10/08/10 01:29 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Jesus also said that the key to everlasting life is to just love God and obey the ten commandments. No mention of him being a deity.
Since both statements can't be true, how do you decide which to believe?
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#193813 - 10/08/10 02:56 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Both are true, just one more specific...Bible is a spiritual sieve...choice matters.
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#193820 - 10/08/10 04:16 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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So you just get to pick and choose which parts to believe and which to dismiss, and that's what everyone does.
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#193822 - 10/08/10 04:34 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Not if you choose all of the word of God and let it speak to you by His spirit. Just choice, Ghoti. Some pick and choose like a buffet but one day they may find it did not get past Gods laws, but only formulated an individual opinion to fit the ego and choice of life and ways of living. With the bible it is all or none. The bible explains itself if you delve into it spiritually with reverence to God and His son and with a right heart. But in the end we stasnd before God to explain our choices made in this life. No one will pull the wool over God's eyes. He has set His son Jesus to judge this world and He will be our final judge. None of us will stand higher in His eyes than anyone else. His judgement is and will be pure and holy in all respects.
Paul
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#193830 - 10/08/10 07:03 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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So if your heart is right when you read the Bible you will just know which passages to follow and which to dismiss, but otherwise you'll choose the wrong ones? Sounds like snake oil to me.
IMO the Bible was clearly written by men, mostly trying to put into words a vision they received from the creator. If the creator really wrote the Bible himself, why in the world would it be so cryptic and full of things that can be interpreted in different ways?
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#193834 - 10/09/10 06:16 AM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ghoti]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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If you'd created this world would you want to be around to answer for it? No. As humans we create all kinds of messes and some pretty awesome worlds as well for ourselves but think how impossible it would be to answer to everyone.
No one here(hear) listens. They have their heads full of what they want to push out, to answer for, to contradict another. So why would you believe that you would hang around to answer for everyone what they needed, if you were God?
Answers and time lead to more questions.
LIFE is the gift given.
And just as a parent, God gave us life so that we may LIVE. A parent can only answer for their child an X amount of time and then they are on their own, and it's impossible to have all questions/problems answered.
All our worlds will collide one day in a huge cloud of heavenly gathering. And answers will seem like unknowing, as it should be because by then, all reasoning will have been transcended.
avory, or crap
I Entered Where I Did Not Know
(Entreme Donde No Supe)
by St. John of the Cross
This poem of St. John of the Cross describes
with utmost accuracy the experience of Gnosis.
Posted by Rosamonde
I entered where I did not know,
And there remained unknowing,
All reason now transcended.
I did not know the door
But when I found the way,
Unknowing where I was,
I learned unheard of things,
But what I heard I cannot say,
For I remained unknowing,
All reason now transcended.
My knowledge was fulfilled
With serenity and peace.
In deepest solitude
I found the narrow way:
A secret giving such release
That I was left there stammering,
All reason now transcended.
I was so fully drunk,
So dazed and far away,
My senses were released
From feelings of my own.
My mind had found a surer way
A knowledge of unknowing,
All reason now transcended.
And he who does arrive,
Collapses as in sleep;
For all he knew before
Now seems of little worth,
And so his knowledge grows so deep
That he remains unknowing,
All reason now transcended.
The higher he ascends,
The darker is the wood;
It is the shadowy cloud
That clarified the night,
And so the one who understood
Remains at last unknowing,
All reason now transcended.
This knowledge by unknowing
Is such a soaring force
That scholars argue long
But never leave the ground.
Their reason always fails the source:
To understand unknowing,
All reason now transcended.
This knowledge is supreme
And meets a blazing height,
Though formal reason tries,
It crumbles in the dark.
For one who would control the night,
By knowledge of unknowing
He will have all transcended.
This is my final word,
The highest learning lead
To an ecstatic feeling
Of the most holy Being;
And from his mercy comes his deed:
To make one stay unknowing,
All reason now transcended.
Translation by Willis Barnstone Originally published by Doubleday & Company Inc. in "An Anthology of Spanish Poetry," edited by Angel Flores, 1961. This is the best translation of the original I have ever found. Above all, it accurately captures the deep meaning of the poem.
I have carried this book with me through the five countries I have lived in since this version of Prof. Barnstone was first published. It is a treasure.
http://www.gnosticsanctuary.org/articles.html
May this poem bring a sense of peace to those who read it.
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#193835 - 10/09/10 08:30 AM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ævory]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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This implies that there is only one kind of gnosis (knowing) - the religious kind. That's one person's opinion,'and if it brings you true peace and serenity then I'm glad for you.
But knowing the creator can take another form entirely - studying his creation; the glories of the entire universe. This means that your mindset is that the best way to know the creator is to become as knowledgeable about nature and science as possible.
Unfortunately this approach to gnosis is difficult and requires constant study, while the religious gnosis is very simple and nearly effortless. IMO that's the reason it's more popular and forms the basis of most religions, while scientific gnosis is far less common. Given a choice, most folks take the easy way out.
I like this approach to religion and try to follow it myself:
http://www.churchofreality.org/wisdom/welcome_home/
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#193836 - 10/09/10 09:39 AM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ronniechoate34]
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Deo
Member
Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 127
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What an unbelievable stupid thing to say.
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#193837 - 10/09/10 10:04 AM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: Deo]
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ronniechoate34
Member
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
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What an unbelievable stupid thing to say.
Believe it, Ghandi was posessed by demons who used him up and then tossed him out like yesterday's garbage.
If you think that the devil does not use "humane acts" and seemingly Christ like ideals to promote his agenda then you must also be insane.
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#193839 - 10/09/10 10:21 AM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ronniechoate34]
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starlight.2
Member
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 796
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IMAGINE
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one.
John Lennon
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Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace.
--Dalai Lama
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#193842 - 10/09/10 12:49 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ronniechoate34]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Christians do not dismiss any scripture, they read it and understand who it is written to and who should follow it. All scripture is to be used for knowledge. Christians follow Gods path to righteousness not mans meanderings of search and understanding that must be tweaked in time to fit the new view. God does not change, ever. Man changes his mind continually. Gods sieve of knowledge misses no one and we all fall on one side or the other by choice or circumstance. Doesn't matter where you are or what you sincerely think or believe you will have to enter the sieve one day to stick on God's side or fall through to satans side. Have a good trip.
Paul
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#193843 - 10/09/10 02:04 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: starlight.2]
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ronniechoate34
Member
Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
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IMAGINE
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one.
John Lennon
John Lennon was also insane. He fully rejected his savation and then he found himself caught in a snare.
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#193844 - 10/09/10 02:33 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Christians do not dismiss any scripture, they read it and understand who it is written to and who should follow it. All scripture is to be used for knowledge. Christians follow Gods path to righteousness not mans meanderings of search and understanding that must be tweaked in time to fit the new view. God does not change, ever. Man changes his mind continually. Gods sieve of knowledge misses no one and we all fall on one side or the other by choice or circumstance. Doesn't matter where you are or what you sincerely think or believe you will have to enter the sieve one day to stick on God's side or fall through to satans side. Have a good trip.
Paul
But you do disregard or claim they only apply to others all those passages that contradict your opinions. That sounds like dismissing scripture to me.
IMO these claims that ONLY committed Christians are qualified to interpret the Bible is just BS made up to keep the flock in check. I heard stuff like that back in Bible study when I was 13 years old and it made no sense then.
If someone came here and said those things about the Koran or the Book of Mormon you'd be all over them.
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#193845 - 10/09/10 02:39 PM
Re: Gandhi quote
[Re: ghoti]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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so, Ronnie, is EVERYONE insane if they don't believe exactly like you? If that's what you think, then you are not only saying that about the followers of every other religion in the world, but the vast majority of Christians, too.
One major characteristic of insane people is that they often think they're the only normal ones and everyone else is crazy. Sound familiar?
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