#192191 - 09/03/10 12:48 PM
God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
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starlight.2
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Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 796
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God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
Physicist Stephen Hawking says God wasn't necessary for the creation of the universe.
In his new book, The Grand Design, the British scientist says unraveling a complex series of theories will explain the universe. The book, written with American physicist and author Leonard Mlodinow, will be published Sept. 9.
In an extract published Thursday in The Times, Hawking wrote that it was "not necessary to invoke God."
"The Universe can and will create itself from nothing," Hawking wrote. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the Universe exists, why we exist."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129613038&ft=1&f=1032
Edited by starlight.2 (09/03/10 12:51 PM)
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Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace.
--Dalai Lama
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#192741 - 09/17/10 04:06 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: starlight.2]
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Hellonwheels
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Posts: 791
Loc: Roanoke, VA USA
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He starts out sounding like a scientist and then runs off the tracks. You can't get something from nothing; energy can be neither created nor destroyed. The logical conclusion is that the universe (or rather the energy that makes up the universe) has always existed in some form and will always exist, and the "Big Bang" was merely an event in it's cycle.
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#192788 - 09/18/10 04:53 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Hellonwheels]
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Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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God is eternal and supplies all energy. Snap,crackle, pop or Bang!!!
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#192827 - 09/19/10 03:32 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Hellonwheels]
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Greg
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Posts: 10000
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He starts out sounding like a scientist and then runs off the tracks. You can't get something from nothing; energy can be neither created nor destroyed. The logical conclusion is that the universe (or rather the energy that makes up the universe) has always existed in some form and will always exist, and the "Big Bang" was merely an event in it's cycle.
You're thinking too narrowly, a whole lot of "nothing" can give you a big something. All you need is the force/gravity and before you know it you're talking black holes and quasars.
Edited by Greg (09/19/10 03:33 PM)
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#192840 - 09/19/10 06:54 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Greg]
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Paul I
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Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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One cannot speak with authority on both the physical and spiritual as they are totally different entities.
_________________________
"...only the shadow knows"
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#192912 - 09/21/10 07:14 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Paul I]
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Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Nothing yields absolutely nothing Greg. It takes something to make something. Force and gravity is something. Maybe what you cannot see or feel might be what you are calling nothing. In that case, to you, God is nothing. He would probably chuckle at that one.:-)
Paul
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#192925 - 09/21/10 07:49 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Greg
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Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 10000
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You should pay more attention when watching Discovery channel or even the most basic science experiments conducted on the space station.
Actually you raise a good point that both "nothing" and God don't exist.
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#192972 - 09/22/10 01:00 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Greg]
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Paulwa_dup1
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Loc: Washington
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But only in your mind, greg. He is alive in the hearts and minds of billions of people, unbelievers are a minority, but even at that there are far too many who will find themselves in Hell with Satan and his minions and for just choosing to avoid their creator. He does give us the desires of our hearts. For some it will be in heaven for others their desires must be realiized without God in the only place god will not be..hell.
Paul
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#192986 - 09/22/10 02:22 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Greg
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Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 10000
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So let me get this straight, unless people pay homage to your, sorry, the God they are destined to spend eternity in pain and suffering in Hell with Satan and his home boy minions?
Do you have any idea how intolerent and narrow minded that sounds?
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#192990 - 09/22/10 02:43 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Greg]
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Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Jesus was very narrow minded and persistant about those facts, Greg. He spoke more about hell than anyone else in the bible and maybe the world too. He died for everyone who would accept Him..those who don't, since He created it all, will be left in the only area where He does not go and that was prepared for satan and his angels who rose against God in rebellion and is the only place left for those who disregard God or His son Jesus's sacrifice. Their choice whether they like it or not. That place is known as hell.
Read it and weep!
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#192992 - 09/22/10 02:57 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Greg
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Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 10000
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I'm sorry Paul I will never accept your version of a judgemental, vengeful and vindictive God. Just as I find those who ascribe hateful attitudes to Muslims disdainful, I find your interpretation of Christain beliefs shameful.
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#192994 - 09/22/10 03:12 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Greg]
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Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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No problem Greg. Not everyone believes what Jesus said. Hope your passage through this life is happy and fruitful.
Paul
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#193019 - 09/23/10 05:47 AM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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corlorde
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Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 9246
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Jesus was very narrow minded
That is a keeper.
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#193046 - 09/23/10 05:02 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: corlorde]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Better believe it. Jesus will judge the world and everyone in it. He created it all. And Greg, you have it backwards..it is veangeful, vindictive and judgemental people at fault, not God!
Paul (Remember man makes his own choices in life and eternity.)
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#193137 - 09/25/10 07:10 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Greg]
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Hellonwheels
Member
Registered: 07/03/00
Posts: 791
Loc: Roanoke, VA USA
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He starts out sounding like a scientist and then runs off the tracks. You can't get something from nothing; energy can be neither created nor destroyed. The logical conclusion is that the universe (or rather the energy that makes up the universe) has always existed in some form and will always exist, and the "Big Bang" was merely an event in it's cycle. You're thinking too narrowly, a whole lot of "nothing" can give you a big something. All you need is the force/gravity and before you know it you're talking black holes and quasars.
Gravity does not exist without matter. According to Einstein, gravity is simply the curvature of space caused by massive objects. No matter/energy, no mass, no gravity. You have to violate the laws of physics to get something from nothing - in other words, you have to look for a supernatural cause. But even if you think God did it, you still didn't get something from nothing, for he/she/it already existed.
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#193141 - 09/25/10 08:41 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Hellonwheels]
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Greg
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Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 10000
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think dark matter, it makes galaxies possible
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#193148 - 09/26/10 12:24 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Greg]
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Hellonwheels
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Registered: 07/03/00
Posts: 791
Loc: Roanoke, VA USA
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think dark matter, it makes galaxies possible
Dark matter is just matter we can't see. What did you think it was?
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#193149 - 09/26/10 01:07 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Hellonwheels]
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Greg
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Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 10000
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It goes back to my point of defining "nothing" as something and as einstein was to newton, understanding of dark matter (and dark energy) will lead to large advancements in cosmology, what is really what this thread is about, right?
http://astronomyonline.org/Cosmology/DarkMatter.asp
Edited by Greg (09/26/10 01:09 PM)
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#193151 - 09/26/10 02:11 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Greg]
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Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Nothing is no thing. Dark matter and gravity are things or caused by things no matter how you try to push God from the picture, He is creator of all. Just what I think but He probably formed evetrything from pure energy of which He has an abundance.
Paul
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#193158 - 09/26/10 03:27 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Greg
Member
Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 10000
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"He probably formed evetrything from pure energy of which He has an abundance."
What do you base this mumbo jumbo on?
Paul, it is frustrating and time wasting to have this discussion with creationists as I could offer piles of logical arguments and proof to counter what you believe while all you have is your subjective opinion based on your faith.
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#193161 - 09/26/10 05:34 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Greg]
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Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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When the Lord comes we will sit down and discuss the error of your thinking. Till then I got nothing to argue about Greg. Continue your secular scientific studies. :-)
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#193178 - 09/27/10 07:51 AM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Greg
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Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 10000
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When the Lord comes we will sit down and discuss the error of your thinking.
Nope we won't, at least if I were to believe your earlier claims, you will be on the up elevator, while people who believe as I do will be on the down elevator.
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#193189 - 09/27/10 12:32 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Greg]
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Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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At the great white throne judgement we will all be present.
Paul
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#193190 - 09/27/10 12:47 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Greg
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Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 10000
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"This is the judgment of unbelievers in which they are judged according to their works and sentenced to everlasting punishment in the lake of fire."
and you really believe this?
Revelation 20:11–15
The Dead Are Judged
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
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#193192 - 09/27/10 01:01 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Greg]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Yes, every word of it, Greg. It is the one point I disagree with Jack Van Impe on. He claims the earth will never disappear and will abide forever. This scripture plainly says for a time it will vanish and Jack never mentions this scripture. All in all he is technically right in that the refurbuished earth will abide forever after the white throne judgement. You don't believe this will happen as described, Greg?
Paul
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#193195 - 09/27/10 01:46 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Greg
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Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 10000
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No Paul, I have no reason to buy into such a judgemental view of religiosity. It is beyond me to say what/if anything will occurr after I leave this life but your words and the countless others you parrot all ring hollow for me.
I just hope your faith is based on giving you peace of mind and not out of a vindictiveness towards your fellow man or found at the bottom of a bottle of Jack Daniels.
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#193229 - 09/28/10 02:30 PM
Re: God Not Needed To Create Universe, Hawking Says
[Re: Greg]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Can't even remember my last alcoholic drink, Greg, but it has to be many decades ago. I am at peace but it disturbs me to see what is coming on this planet. It has decided to eliminate its creator and so God stands back and releases His control on the forces bent to destroy the planet and its people just as they have asked. That is why evil is running rampant more and more these days. God takes care of His own who are dedicated to Him and those caught up in disasters are brought home to Him. Many though go on to perdition to await judgement day. Natural calamities will increase because He is not there to stop them and protect. Yes to you this sounds totally crazy but you will know one day it is very exact and precise and you will know why it happened.
No this doesn't come from the bottom of a Jack Daniels bottle but it does come from studying God's word for my lifetime and the witness of His Spirit in my life.
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