#190929 - 08/08/10 06:35 AM
BEAUTIFUL!
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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http://www.biblicalfulfillment.org/id82.html
MATTHEW 24:1-34.
I have pondered for quite a long time as to how best to present a lesson on Matthew 24:1-34. I wanted something simple, something that could be easy understood, something that a person could read and answer his own question in regards to what Jesus Christ taught the disciples in this chapter.
I want to remind the reader that Jesus spoke these sayings to His disciples while they all lived, and this event was spoken before the death of Christ in the first century. These sayings were not recorded for the world until after the death of Christ. It has been said that the disciples after so many years could have forgotten some things that Christ taught them while He was with them. Such thoughts for sure are not Spiritual, and hold no truth at all.
I call your attention to John 14:16, “And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever.”
John 14:26, “ But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.”
John 15:26, “ When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Holy Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, He will bear witness of Me.”
John 16:13, “ But when He, the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.”
It is quite evident that the disciples { Apostles } did not depend upon their own memory, when the time came to historically write the Gospels, or the other books of the New Testament.
We can see and understand from the evidence listed above, does not credit the Apostles as the Authors of the New Testament. IN FACT, the evidence above shows the Holy Spirit as being the Author of the New Testament. The Apostles only wrote what the Holy Spirit guided them to write. Therefore, there is no error in the original writings. There were so many copies of the original that no man dared to corrupt the originals.
Our problem since time began, is that we do not listen to God, Christ, or the Holy Spirit, we do not study to become approved by God, 2 Tim. 2:15, And in a lot of cases we do not believe that every Scripture is inspired by God, and is profitable for teaching 2 Tim. 3:16.
A lengthy employment in the Scriptures could very well save our soul from eternal torment, for to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, there is never any recovery, then keep in mind that the Holy Spirit was the Author of all the New Testament.
I have therefore; set my course for this lesson. I have recently viewed a television program where adults were set before second graders, third graders, fourth graders, fifth graders, sixth, and seven, the idea of the program was to test the educational knowledge of young school children against adults, and adults against school children in the before mentioned grades.
It is now my obligation to interview a fifth grader, ask them to read Matt. 24: 1-34, and verse by verse give me their understanding as they read, I may, or may not ask questions in regards to reference Scripture; but will at no time suggest to the student the meaning as I see it. I will choose a student not of my County, or the schools in my County.
This idea comes from the Television show “ ARE YOU SMARTER THAN A FIFTH
GRADER. This program is aired on Thursday nights.
INTRODUCTION OF STUDENT: Rainey B. is a fifth grader from Sunny Hills, Florida. He has agreed to help me by giving his own personal understanding of Matthew 24:1-35. Rainey has not been coached beforehand to give expected answers, but is sitting down for the first time with me to discuss this passage. He has agreed to do this willingly and not under any pressure. Below, follows the interaction between myself JEM, and Rainey, RB.
JEM: I’m going to ask you now to begin by reading Matthew 24. Now what I want you to do is read the passage, Mt. 24:1-35. (Rainey reads the passage.)
RB: OK, it seems to be clear and simple.
JEM: Rainey, you may begin your analysis and your understanding of Mt. 24:1-35. Go ahead and read out loud right now and give us what you think it means.
RB: (Reads.) Matt. 24: 1-3.
JEM: Ok, you read, and understand, that Jesus and the disciples were at the temple in Jerusalem.
RB: Jesus says when will these things be or the disciples say that. Jesus is asking them do you see what’s happening here. He’s saying that one stone will not be left upon another when the army comes and knocks it down. (Reads.) Jesus says that these things will take place when he comes down for his second coming. Then and only then will the stones be thrown down,
RB: When shall these things be? Jesus is saying, or the disciples are saying when will these things happen. The disciples are saying when are you coming and how are we going to know it. And, the disciples are saying, the third question, when is going to be the end of the world, the end of their generation. 1816 edition of King James Version. {world}See Heb. 9:26. ASV Age.
JEM: Rainey, you mention how your third question having to do with the end of the world. And you gave your understanding, as the end of that generation, is that correct?
RB: Yes.
JEM: Rainey, if you saw a companion Scripture that deals with the same thing that you just talked about, the end of the world, the end of that generation, would you be able to connect that with what you are saying?
RB: Yes, I think so.
JEM: Rainey, please read Heb. 9:26 in connection with the end of the age or the end of the world. Turn in the Bible that I gave to you to use, take your time the computer will wait until you are ready. I gave you the 1816 version of the King James, one you’re not familiar with. I want you to read v. 26 and see if that connects with what you’re saying. (Rainey reads.) Now, that verse says that at the end of the world he was sacrificed. Now, is that verse inspired by God?
RB: Um hm. Yes.
JEM: So then that tells you exactly when the end of the world or the end of the age was, right?
RB: Yes.
JEM: Now, Rainey go ahead and read beginning with v. 4 of Mt. down to v. 28 and tell us what signs is given to the disciples. (Rainey reads.) Rainey, you have read verses 4 through 28. You have talked about signs. What were these signs given for?
RB: They were given for the, um, people of Jerusalem, to tell them what was going to happen, they’re going to be scourged in the synagogues and they’re going to go through persecution.
JEM: I’m interested in the last verse that you read, v. 27 and as I recall, it reads, “For as the lightening commeth out of the east and shineth even to the west, so also shall the coming of the son of man be.” Rainey, you’re understanding of this as the coming of the Lord is what? Is this coming of the Lord talking about a coming in his generation or in our future?
RB: His generation, not ours.
JEM: Your understanding, then, is that what you have read in Mt. thus far pertains to the people of his own generation?
RB: Yes.
JEM: Rainey, continue and read v. 29 for us and tell us what your understanding of v. 29 is. (Rainey reads.)
RB: Like, that’s when the curtain rips and everything becomes dark, and destruction, V 1.
JEM: Rainey, on v. 29, I want your understanding of what the sun, moon, stars really means. Do you believe that in your understanding of this verse that the literal stars is going to fall from heaven?
RB: No. It is like people in power.
JEM: Rainey, your answer was ‘no’ to that question and I would ask another connected with that. I’m not trying to confuse you; rather I want to be sure that I have your understanding. Could this verse, Rainey, have anything to do with the destruction of the priesthood in Jerusalem?
RB: Yes, I think so.
JEM: You think so? Rainey, I turn to Genesis chapter 37 and we have the same kind of symbol language used here and this is a pattern that God uses throughout the Bible and I read to you from Gen. 37:5-10. (Quote) Rainey, now after having read the account in Gen. Where Jacob, his wife and his 11 sons was represented as The sun, The moon, and The stars, have you considered that what I have just read to you, which is also in symbol language, is also used in Mt. 24:39?
RB: Yes it is alike.
JEM: In other words, you can be sure of that? Rainey, read now v. 30 and give us your understanding of v. 30. (Rainey reads.)
RB: Jesus came down, like very special, like he promised in that generation, v 34.
JEM: Did he come…this has reference to the second coming…did he come in his own generation?
RB: Yes.
JEM: Did he come in a spiritual form or was he physical?
RB: He came in a spiritual form, a spirit.
JEM: All right, read v. 31. (Rainey reads.)
RB: I’d like for you to tell us, Rainey, what Jesus meant when he said at this time that he would gather his saints from one corner of the earth to the other. Was he talking at this time about a resurrection, in other words, if he was gathering them up, did he have reference to a resurrection?
RB: Yes, he did.
JEM: That’s your understanding? Rainey, we’d like for you to read v. 32. (Rainey reads.) This is another sign, right?
RB: It’s another sign of AD 70.
JEM: Another sign of his coming, right?
RB: Right.
JEM: And so up to this point now what you have read has been about signs, right?
RB: Yes, it has.
JEM: What is the purpose of signs?
RB: They tell you where to go or what to do or what to look for, and when to look.
JEM: We’d like for you to read now v. 33. (Rainey reads.) Rainey, what does this particular v. mean when he says that he’s right at the door?
RB: He’s close. He’s coming, the signs is filled.
JEM: In any case, could this be confused or are you confused about this coming? Does this Scripture with its language allow for a coming in our future?
RB: No, that generation.
JEM: Rainey, we’d like for you to read v. 34. (Rainey reads.) Rainey, we’d like for you to talk about this v., this generation, what all of this means.
RB: All of the signs that he gave will be fulfilled in that generation.
JEM: And your understanding is based on the scripture that you read.
RB: Yes.
JEM: Rainey, in reading this, do you have the understanding that the word generation here applies to the generation of Christ in the first century or can we legally use the word generation here in this Scripture to prove that Christ is coming in this generation that you and I are living in now?
RB: No.
JEM: Rainey, where you read in v. 34 that all these things, we’re concentrating on these things, the things you have just read, the things that Jesus spoke about from the beginning of Mt. 1, is this what Jesus means here will be completed and fulfilled in that generation?
RB: Yes.
JEM: I haven’t asked this question and you read it in your questions and one of the questions in v. 3 that the disciples asked Jesus was what shall be the sign of thy coming and of the end of the world. Now, in concluding this lesson, I want you to turn with me to Luke 21:20-22. (Rainey reads.) Rainey, could you explain to us in your own understanding what v. 20 and 22 means to you today?
RB: In v. 20, I think it means the armies will come to Jerusalem. And in 22…
JEM: Go back to v. 20. They’ll come to Jerusalem and what are they coming to Jerusalem for?
RB: They’re coming to Jerusalem to conquer and destroy it.
JEM: Now, give us your understanding of v. 22.
RB: In the days of persecution, everything Jesus as said is going to be fulfilled is going to come true.
JEM: When would that happen?
RB: AD 70.
JEM: One more question, Rainey. In reference to v. 20 of Luke 21, Jesus said that these were the days of vengeance in order that all things that were written may be fulfilled. Do you understand that this v. means that all things written, that would be the New Testament would have its fulfillment at the destruction of Jerusalem?
RB: Yes.
JEM: Rainey, in school, have you studied earth science?
RB: Yes.
JEM: Have you studied the history of nations?
RB: No, not yet.
JEM: Have you studied geography?
RB: No, not yet.
JEM: Have you studied any kind of history?
RB: Only a little bit of social studies.
JEM: A little bit of social studies. Rainey, how often do you study your Bible?
RB: Every Wednesday, Sunday night and Sunday morning.
JEM: In concluding this study, do you feel that I have led you into your understanding or in the replies that you have made?
RB: In the replies that I’ve made, I’ve done it.
JEM: Your mother has been present during this study. Can she attest to the fact that you have not been coerced in your replies?
KB: (Rainey’s mom) Yes.
This student has made it clear in our conversation after we finished the study that he finds a problem in his study when he, or anyone does not consider the whole context, in this case Matt. 24:1-35, completes the whole subject, when the whole subject is read, it becomes simple and easy to understand, so everything within the main subject becomes fulfilled. {To this I agree and this method does not allow for any one to pick out things, and say this is fulfilled; but these other things is yet future. In this particular text, all or none has its fulfillment; but when Jesus said it would be finished in “ this” generation we cannot, and do not have authority to change the time frame.} He had reference to His own generation, 1 Cor. 4:6 warns against any change!
It is quite evident, that you can give a good Bible to a child of 8 to 10 years of age, and not coach that child into what you think the Scriptures mean; but allow him to study on his own, and work out his own belief, that child will understand the truth. That child can see things that an adult refuses to acknowledge, the adult has been for the most part filled with tradition.
I stand in AWE at the young fellow who sat with me in the above study, the ease in which he was able to understand, only a couple of times did he pause before answering the question, or making his own observations. I therefore, challenge every adult to study this same lesson and test yourself. Does this Fifth grader have a greater knowledge of the Bible than you do?
He answered every question Biblically and truthfully. Any adult who will test his knowledge against this young man, can if he searches for the truth, find it.
This young man had no pre-conceived ideas before he began this study. Most adults
Would enter the same lesson with pre-conceived ideas of what each verse meant, we adults
Including me, thinks that we must have our own interpretation. This child entered upon God’ Word
Looking only to find out what God meant, and what God was expressing in this lesson, he could have cared less as to what I believed about this event; he was only interested in expressing his
Own findings, when he saw the truth, that is when he made up his mind as to what it meant.
He read the lesson first as I requested, he paused for some two to three minutes, I requested
That he return to the first verse and begin to give me his understanding. He done this very
Precisely. I was not upset because he took a break every five minutes. NO, because he took no breaks. Now to every one who reads this lesson, give yourself a break, and challenge this Young man’s knowledge. Prove him to be wrong! Take that chance. Let me hear from you.
Don’t start hollering false teaching without first proving that the questions, and answers were incorrectly used. Every Bible has the same text recorded in it. Preacher, Elder, Student, lay aside your preconceived ideas, and pray that God will give you light, then take this complete text and study it, give your own answers based upon what you have read.
My Prayer is that God will continue to bless this young man with understanding of His Word. And may God receive the praise, thanks and glory for any good that comes from this lesson.
Jessie E. Mills, PH.D GSRE.
http://www.biblicalfulfillment.org/index.html
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#190933 - 08/08/10 08:23 AM
Re: BEAUTIFUL!
[Re: ævory]
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starlight.2
Member
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 793
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*yawn* too much text to read first thing in the morning...
_________________________
Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace.
--Dalai Lama
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#190934 - 08/08/10 09:04 AM
Re: BEAUTIFUL!
[Re: starlight.2]
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soda
Member
Registered: 08/26/07
Posts: 4726
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bring this shit down below.
satan
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 67.87.81.12
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#190936 - 08/08/10 10:06 AM
Re: BEAUTIFUL!
[Re: soda]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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"Honey, I don't think we're even on the same beam. You're reading me and I'm not even sending."
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#190938 - 08/08/10 10:46 AM
Re: BEAUTIFUL!
[Re: ævory]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Ronda, I hope you realize copyright laws say it isn't proper to reprint entire articles word-for-word on the internet without permission of the author. You're allowed to quote excerpts for the purpose of writing a commentary or critique of something and then post a link to the original, but not the whole text.
It would be far more interesting to hear what you think about these things. Just because someone we've never heard of thinks a certain way really carries no weight. Tell us what significance it has for you, or at least your opinion.
_________________________
Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#190940 - 08/08/10 11:31 AM
Re: BEAUTIFUL!
[Re: ghoti]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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This student has made it clear in our conversation after we finished the study that he finds a problem in his study when he, or anyone does not consider the whole context, in this case Matt. 24:1-35, completes the whole subject, when the whole subject is read, it becomes simple and easy to understand, so everything within the main subject becomes fulfilled. {To this I agree and this method does not allow for any one to pick out things, and say this is fulfilled; but these other things is yet future. In this particular text, all or none has its fulfillment; but when Jesus said it would be finished in “ this” generation we cannot, and do not have authority to change the time frame.} He had reference to His own generation, 1 Cor. 4:6 warns against any change!
Another camp heard from! I don't agree with it, but it is an interesting perspective.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#190944 - 08/08/10 11:45 AM
Re: BEAUTIFUL!
[Re: flicka]
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Deo
Member
Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 127
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I agree with Ghoti. I would like to know what are you opinions on these articles you post. So far I have attempted (whew) to read most of them. Do you ever attempt give our responses,links etc the same try. While we can't change each others views, it would be interested in getting your perspective.
Deo
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#190946 - 08/08/10 12:41 PM
Re: BEAUTIFUL!
[Re: Deo]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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It takes time to read this. And breathing, it's always good to breathe.
Doesn't anyone have an interest in clicking on the man's 'who i am link' i posted at the bottom of it? it's partly posted for the shakeydumb's (you know, those remarks that are just silly and assinine) like Ronda doesn't post reputable sources.
Anyway, you can read me and find me intollerable or you can find me tollerable; even both at the same time. Many people have. I don't and never have been about shutting anyone up, or making them to speak. It's my party as it is your own when you are behind this screen reading or typing or using voice speak. respect
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#190947 - 08/08/10 12:44 PM
Re: BEAUTIFUL!
[Re: ævory]
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starlight.2
Member
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 793
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you've lost me completely now.
_________________________
Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace.
--Dalai Lama
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#190948 - 08/08/10 01:31 PM
Re: BEAUTIFUL!
[Re: starlight.2]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Whether the sources are reputable isn't the point. They're always from a conservative religious viewpoint, and I'd prefer to read your own opinions of them rather than just a reprint of someone else's ideas.
Also, it's unethical to just copy an entire article, even if you do provide a link. You're only permitted brief quotes and excerpts for the purpose of critiquing something and not supposed to repost entire articles.
_________________________
Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#190950 - 08/08/10 01:52 PM
Re: BEAUTIFUL!
[Re: ghoti]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Keep trying Ronduh...lol Scientifically, conservative religious sources are almost always not only not reputable, they are not science at all. Rather they are just supporting an agenda without anything to back their position.
_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#190954 - 08/08/10 02:24 PM
Re: BEAUTIFUL!
[Re: shakey56]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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Let's say, just for kicks and kibbles, that I were a pretty lil young thing with a bad
disability and an extreme case of ADD (oo, I forgot the H..incase yer denser than
I..the H goes between the two D's..or, Double D's! reminds me of another!...actually,
now that I think of it, it Could possibly be that I were a pretty lil young thing with a
bad disability and an extreme case of MADD, you know, the other cause: mothers
against drunk driving but then I'd also have to be old enough to actually Be a
mother..ack, but I digress...
? You would deny me my posting at New Mobility, of a full article instead of a partial
one simply because you exhausted yourselves of methods designed to rid a person from the
board; cus I'm fairly certain you'd never given this enlightenment about board
ettiquette to me before, or to any of the many who've done the same, before.
Where is your desire to have a board that is friendly and open to all? Especially to all dis?
?Has someone hurt you.
Please don't cry that they may seem to you as being conservative and religious, too.
Edited by ævory (08/08/10 02:33 PM)
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#190955 - 08/08/10 02:32 PM
Re: BEAUTIFUL!
[Re: ævory]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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This guy really does have an interesting take on things...
The purpose for which Christ thus became the completion of the law. Christ is the end of the law, Rom. 10:4 “ Christ is the end of the law for righteousness, to every one that believes.” Now I ask the audience this question. Do you believe what Christ said was TRUE? Take time to be sure of your answer. Now if you want to show your faith and belief in Christ, raise your hands. 90 per cent has raised your hands among which are preachers. Now you do not have to answer the following question in any fashion. If you believe this, then why do you still teach that all prophecy has not been fulfilled? entire article
Edited by flicka (08/08/10 02:32 PM)
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#190956 - 08/08/10 02:47 PM
Re: BEAUTIFUL!
[Re: flicka]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Ronda, I'm telling you what copyright law states about internet posting. Copying and reposting ENTIRE ARTICLES is a violation of copyright unless you have permission from the author. It's OK to post short excerpts in quotes for the purpose of writing a critique as long as you link to the original.
It's not likely that you're going to get in trouble doing it on an obscure website like NM, but it's still technically a violation, and people have gotten in trouble for doing it.
From the NM FAQ's:
Participants shall not post any material that is likely to cause offence, protected by copyright, trademark or other proprietary right - without the express permission of the owner of such copyright - or that contains personal contact information, phone numbers or addresses.
http://www.newmobility.com/bb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=faq#attach
_________________________
Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#190957 - 08/08/10 02:51 PM
Re: BEAUTIFUL!
[Re: ævory]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Let's say, just for kicks and kibbles, that I were a pretty lil young thing with a bad
disability and an extreme case of ADD (oo, I forgot the H..incase yer denser than
I..the H goes between the two D's..or, Double D's! reminds me of another!...actually,
now that I think of it, it Could possibly be that I were a pretty lil young thing with a
bad disability and an extreme case of MADD, you know, the other cause: mothers
against drunk driving but then I'd also have to be old enough to actually Be a
mother..ack, but I digress...
? You would deny me my posting at New Mobility, of a full article instead of a partial
one simply because you exhausted yourselves of methods designed to rid a person from the
board; cus I'm fairly certain you'd never given this enlightenment about board
ettiquette to me before, or to any of the many who've done the same, before.
Where is your desire to have a board that is friendly and open to all? Especially to all dis?
?Has someone hurt you.
Please don't cry that they may seem to you as being conservative and religious, too.
Can someone translate this? lol
Nothing wrong with being conservative and religious. Just that those types of sources are poorly supported scientifically. By all means believe whatever you choose to believe. Be aware though that belief does not equal fact, and your belief does not overrule other peoples' beliefs. Also, if you are trying to prove aspects of your belief system, at least bring supportable evidence.
_________________________
Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#190994 - 08/09/10 02:20 PM
Re: BEAUTIFUL!
[Re: ævory]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Now to every one who reads this lesson, give yourself a break, and challenge this Young man’s knowledge. Prove him to be wrong! Take that chance. Let me hear from you.
You know, I can almost buy into the preterist viewpoint. It seems to fall a bit apart with its literal and symbolic thoughts on Revelation, though.
_________________________
"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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