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#190440 - 07/30/10 08:41 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
ronniechoate34
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Registered: 02/06/10
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Loc: tennerida
Isa:27:1: In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.


It's in the sea, see?

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#190442 - 07/30/10 09:30 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
ghoti
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Ronnie, how much experience would most people in ancient Israel have had with the sea? The nation bordered on the Mediterranean so fishermen would have been out on the sea, but even they would have little knowledge of life below the surface.

They would have seen the fins of sharks and an occasional dolphin or whale but the undersea world was a total mystery. Look at all the myths that other cultures (especially the Greeks and Romans) had about exotic sea monsters.

Leviathon was likely a composite name given to sightings of variaous large fish and aquatic mammals that they didn't understand very well at all.
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#190445 - 07/30/10 10:21 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ghoti]
ronniechoate34
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Originally Posted By: ghoti
Ronnie, how much experience would most people in ancient Israel have had with the sea? The nation bordered on the Mediterranean so fishermen would have been out on the sea, but even they would have little knowledge of life below the surface.

They would have seen the fins of sharks and an occasional dolphin or whale but the undersea world was a total mystery. Look at all the myths that other cultures (especially the Greeks and Romans) had about exotic sea monsters.

Leviathon was likely a composite name given to sightings of variaous large fish and aquatic mammals that they didn't understand very well at all.



Ghoti, you'd turn as white as a sheet and possibly die of fright if you were to ever stumble upon the likes of those things that God has hidden from your sight.


Job:41:19: Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
Job:41:20: Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
Job:41:21: His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.


Nope, that don't sound like no fish that I've ever heard of before.


Job:41:31: He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
Job:41:32: He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.
Job:41:33: Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.
Job:41:34: He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.


Yup. That's one weirdo fish.


Edited by ronniechoate34 (07/30/10 10:22 PM)

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#190447 - 07/30/10 11:43 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
ghoti
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It's scary only if you take those descriptions literally. How would the author of Job ever seen this animal in order to describe it accurately?

It's far more likely that Leviathan was just another sea monster myth similar to the Kraken and sea serpents that early sailors of other cultures feared. There certainly is a lot we don't know about the depths of the oceans, but I'll be very surprised if there are many extremely large critters down there yet to be found.
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#190448 - 07/31/10 04:40 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ghoti]
corlorde
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Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 9246
Originally Posted By: ghoti


Leviathon was likely a composite name given to sightings of variaous large fish and aquatic mammals that they didn't understand very well at all.


Or it might have been a "bigger woman of yore" who was "leviathan in girth and bosom"
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#190450 - 07/31/10 08:50 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
ronniechoate34
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http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2006/08/28/unknown-creature-was-found-by-soldiers/


Edited by ronniechoate34 (07/31/10 08:51 AM)

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#190451 - 07/31/10 09:44 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
starlight.2
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Registered: 02/19/09
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while i agree that the ocean is vastly under-explored and it is entirely plausible that there are undiscovered species of animals in the more remote areas, it's kind of a stretch to imagine an animal from the waters near eastern russia could have been encountered anywhere around the mediterranean region.
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#190453 - 07/31/10 09:59 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
starlight.2
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Registered: 02/19/09
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Originally Posted By: ronniechoate34
Noah was instructed to take two of every kind of animal. Not two of every kind of the various species of animals and the like. Just two cats, two birds, two horses, etc.


the number of insects alone would have been overwhelming.
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#190454 - 07/31/10 10:00 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ghoti]
starlight.2
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Originally Posted By: ghoti
If he didn't take two of every species, then wouldn't that be proof that animals can evolve into different species after he released them?


........still waiting for answer
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#190458 - 07/31/10 12:13 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: starlight.2]
SteveGIMP
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The story of Noah saving all land animals on the ark is one of the most patently ridiculous things in the Bible. The fact that some believe this fairy tale included dinosaurs just makes it all the more laughable.
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#190460 - 07/31/10 12:24 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: SteveGIMP]
Paulwa_dup1
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First to Ghoti who still see's man as then originator of the bible..uh uh,.,God wrote the bible and I think He knew what He was talking about even though the writers man not have had a clue at the time they wrote. They wrote as the spirit of God moved them.

For Star and Steve the same answer God told Noah how to build an ark to His specs. God brought the creatures to the ark and put them aboard and when all was inside to His satisfaction, He closed the door and poured the water. Simple!
Paul

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#190462 - 07/31/10 01:12 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: Paulwa_dup1]
ronniechoate34
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Registered: 02/06/10
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Baraminology is the study of the biblical created kinds. The term baraminology is derived from the Hebrew words bara, which means “to create,” and min, which means “kind.” This field of study shows, for example, that the many dog species that we find throughout the world today—including the coyote, the wolf, the fox, the border collie, and the jackal—may all descend from one original created kind, created by God on Day 6 of Creation Week.
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#190463 - 07/31/10 01:14 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
ronniechoate34
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Registered: 02/06/10
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#190464 - 07/31/10 01:14 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: SteveGIMP]
ævory
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
Originally Posted By: SteveGIMP
The story of Noah saving all land animals on the ark is one of the most patently ridiculous things in the Bible. The fact that some believe this fairy tale included dinosaurs just makes it all the more laughable.
Oh! Good to have you home, Steve. Now if you could get the rest of the flock to come home...Confucious say: He who setteth the path for flock, leadeth the flock to flee. Set flock Flee, steve

and you all know it's more fun, here, too

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#190465 - 07/31/10 01:16 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: Paulwa_dup1]
flicka
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Registered: 04/06/00
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Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
Originally Posted By: Paulwa_dup1
First to Ghoti who still see's man as then originator of the bible..uh uh,.,God wrote the bible and I think He knew what He was talking about even though the writers man not have had a clue at the time they wrote. They wrote as the spirit of God moved them.

Isn't it interesting that this is also a claim to the authenticity of the Quran?
Quote:
Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in the merchant marine and made his living on the sea. A Muslim gave him a translation of the Qur'an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur'an. When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and asked, "This Muhammed, was he a sailor?" He was impressed at how accurately the Qur'an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told, "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed with the Qur'an's description because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written that description had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds" was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur'an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago. source
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