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#190200 - 07/27/10 09:20 AM a question for the young-earth creationists...
starlight.2
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Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 793
do you believe that dinosaurs and humans coexisted?
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#190218 - 07/27/10 12:53 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: starlight.2]
inkblister
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Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 231
Loc: Land of Debris...


Well OBVIOUSLY they did!...

j/k...
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#190221 - 07/27/10 01:07 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: inkblister]
Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
Well no one has a better right to ride a dinosaur than the one who created them. :-)\
Paul

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#190223 - 07/27/10 01:08 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: Paulwa_dup1]
Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
We will have to let God answer that one Starlight!
Paul

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#190248 - 07/27/10 07:02 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: Paulwa_dup1]
starlight.2
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Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 793
Originally Posted By: Paulwa_dup1
We will have to let God answer that one Starlight!
Paul


way to evade the question. yes or no?
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Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace.
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#190252 - 07/27/10 07:34 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: starlight.2]
ronniechoate34
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Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
Yes dinosaurs did exist with men. Though after the flood the climate had drastically changed and what few dino's remained were probably hunted for food and such.


Could a massive disaster like a flood that's described in the Bible cause fossilization? Can an atomic blast create fossils? The answer to both of these questions is yes.

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#190253 - 07/27/10 07:34 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: starlight.2]
Paulwa_dup1
Member


Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
No evasion, just God knows and I don't since I wasn't there at that time. I personally think we did coexist at one time, but that is just my opinion.
Paul

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#190255 - 07/27/10 07:48 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: Paulwa_dup1]
ronniechoate34
Member


Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
Job:40:12: Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place.
Job:40:13: Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.
Job:40:14: Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.
Job:40:15: Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
Job:40:16: Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
Job:40:17: He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
Job:40:18: His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
Job:40:19: He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
Job:40:20: Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
Job:40:21: He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
Job:40:22: The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
Job:40:23: Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
Job:40:24: He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.


Edited by ronniechoate34 (07/27/10 07:48 PM)

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#190257 - 07/27/10 07:53 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
ronniechoate34
Member


Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
Job:41:1: Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
Job:41:2: Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?
Job:41:3: Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?
Job:41:4: Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?
Job:41:5: Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?
Job:41:6: Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?
Job:41:7: Canst thou fill his skin with barbed iron? or his head with fish spears?
Job:41:8: Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.
Job:41:9: Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?
Job:41:10: None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?
Job:41:11: Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine.
Job:41:12: I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion.
Job:41:13: Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle?
Job:41:14: Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about.
Job:41:15: His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
Job:41:16: One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.
Job:41:17: They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.
Job:41:18: By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
Job:41:19: Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
Job:41:20: Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
Job:41:21: His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.
Job:41:22: In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him.
Job:41:23: The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.
Job:41:24: His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.
Job:41:25: When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.
Job:41:26: The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.
Job:41:27: He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.
Job:41:28: The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.
Job:41:29: Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.
Job:41:30: Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.
Job:41:31: He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
Job:41:32: He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.
Job:41:33: Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.
Job:41:34: He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

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#190258 - 07/27/10 07:53 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
ronniechoate34
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Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
Psalms:104:24: O LORD, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches.
Psalms:104:25: So is this great and wide sea, wherein are things creeping innumerable, both small and great beasts.
Psalms:104:26: There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.
Psalms:104:27: These wait all upon thee; that thou mayest give them their meat in due season.
Psalms:104:28: That thou givest them they gather: thou openest thine hand, they are filled with good.
Psalms:104:29: Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
Psalms:104:30: Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.
Psalms:104:31: The glory of the LORD shall endure for ever: the LORD shall rejoice in his works.

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#190259 - 07/27/10 07:55 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
ronniechoate34
Member


Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
Isa:27:1: In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.
Isa:27:2: In that day sing ye unto her, A vineyard of red wine.

Isa:26:21: For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

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#190262 - 07/27/10 08:21 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
Paul I
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Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
Humans and dinosaurs did not coexist. They were millions of years apart.

So Paul, did the American Revolution actually occur even though
you weren't there to see it?
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#190264 - 07/27/10 08:33 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
If Noah carried all the dinosaur species in the ark, it would have had to be an awful lot bigger than what the Bible claims. It's been estimated that at least 5000 different species of dinosaur fossils have been identified, and there are probably many, many more yet to be found.

Then there all the species of extinct giant lizards, amphibians, and mammals that came before and after the dinosaurs. And what about all the plant species of the present and past? Most of them would never survive being immersed in water for many days, and since they produce seeds at different times of the year Noah couldn't have just collected their seeds.

Let's not forget that Noah would have had to travel to Antarctica to collect penguins, to Australia to get Koalas, and to the Arctic to get polar bears, just to mention a few. The idea that he could have accomplished this and fit them all, including food and water to last the trip, is just impossible.

The story of Noah and the flood is clearly an allegory, since it's ridiculous to think it could have actually happened.
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#190265 - 07/27/10 08:38 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: Paul I]
ronniechoate34
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Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
Originally Posted By: Paul I
Humans and dinosaurs did not coexist. They were millions of years apart.



Right. Except sometimes when scientists are proven wrong about something being extinct.


No one knows what exists in the oceans. I'm sure there are sea monsters galore. My daughter showed me a picture of one of these deep water angle fish that would curl your hair.


Before the flood the conditions were ripe for dinosaurs and the aquatic life probably wasn't too affected by the flood except for the rising of the waters. I am sure that had some affect on the marine life of the time. After the flood conditions had changed and the time of the land behemoth was at an end.


The behemoth described in Job is believed to be a Brachiosaurus. The scripture describes the behemoth as having a tail like a cedar and being the greatest or largest of a God's creations.


A tail like a cedar. Does that sound like a hippo or an elephant to you?

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#190266 - 07/27/10 08:40 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ghoti]
ronniechoate34
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Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
Noah was instructed to take two of every kind of animal. Not two of every kind of the various species of animals and the like. Just two cats, two birds, two horses, etc.

Edited by ronniechoate34 (07/27/10 08:42 PM)

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#190269 - 07/27/10 08:53 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
If he didn't take two of every species, then wouldn't that be proof that animals can evolve into different species after he released them?
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#190340 - 07/29/10 06:01 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ghoti]
MerryA
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Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
Leviathan is one of the seven princes of Hell and its gatekeeper. The word has become synonymous with any large sea monster or creature. It generally means great whales, and in Modern Hebrew, it means simply "whale."
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#190341 - 07/29/10 06:15 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: starlight.2]
MerryA
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Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
Originally Posted By: starlight.2
do you believe that dinosaurs and humans coexisted?


Nope. There is zero evidence they did and a great deal of evidence they didn't.
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"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House

76.22.172.94

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#190342 - 07/29/10 06:32 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: Paul I]
corlorde
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Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 9246
Originally Posted By: Paul I
Humans and dinosaurs did not coexist.


When I first read that, I thought it said "Humans and dinosaurs did not exist" ;D
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#190352 - 07/29/10 11:09 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: corlorde]
Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
With God our creator everyything is possible. When everything was loaded to God's satisfaction the bible saysd..God closed the door on the ark sealing everything inside safely. The flood was Gods work and so the impossible to man happened easily to our creator. Say what ever you want, mankind alwasys looks at stories like the flood and tries to imagine how it could have happened with out God. The fool in his heart hath said there is no God. So in time all will know there is God and will kneel before him and be enlightened to the fact there is a God and for many will also realize too late that they have thrown away all chances of living eternally with Him.
Paul

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#190355 - 07/29/10 11:14 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: Paulwa_dup1]
shakey56
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Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
Preach brother, preach
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.

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#190357 - 07/29/10 11:20 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: shakey56]
Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
Not a preacher Shakey, just one who does not question the book God gave to us through His spirit that guided the hearts asnd hands of many writers through the generations and has stood the test of time for millions of believers world wide.
Paul

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#190368 - 07/29/10 12:17 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: Paulwa_dup1]
ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
It's fine that you accept the Bible without question, Paulwa, but it's not OK to expect others to do the same. Faith is a very personal thing and it can't be imposed on others. People have questions, and the Bible doesn't answer them adequately for lots of folks.

An awful lot of young people are turning away from traditional religions today, and that inflexible attitude is a major reason according to many I've talked to.
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#190392 - 07/29/10 06:51 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ghoti]
Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
I think there are more youth going to the bible than turning away Ghoti.
Paul

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#190399 - 07/29/10 08:04 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: Paulwa_dup1]
ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
Not to your view of it. Here's a chart showing changes in religious affiliation between 2001 and 2008:

http://www.teachingaboutreligion.org/Demographics/map_demographics.htm

Note the the only Christian group that didn't drop was the largest one (Catholic), probably due to the Hispanic immigrants. The group "no religion" grew from 14.1 to 15%, making it the third largest overall.


Edited by ghoti (07/29/10 08:51 PM)
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#190408 - 07/30/10 05:55 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ghoti]
ævory
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
Originally Posted By: ghoti


Note the the only Christian group that didn't drop was the largest one (Catholic), probably due to the Hispanic immigrants. T


Note, according to this:

"Probably, Obably!were the lines I had to say when I was a kid in the school play of Charlotte's Web. I was the great big goose wiith the long long neck. I couldn't see a thing and was suppose to sit the rest of the play out by warming my butt on a nest of plastic eggs. In my black tights and lost web foot I knocked the eggs out of the nest and they rolled off the middle of the stage into the audience' way. It was a real mess but we all pulled it off beautifully. The audience loved it...they had to cus they were our parents and loved ones...our support group!

I digress, *note:

Based on their stated beliefs rather than
their religious identification in 2008, 70% of Americans believe in a personal God, roughly 12% of Americans are atheist (no God) or agnostic (unknowable or unsure), and another 12% are deistic (a higher power but no personal God).

America's religious geography has been
transformed since 1990. Religious switching along with Hispanic immigration has significantly changed the religious profile of some states and regions. Between 1990 and 2008, the Catholic population proportion of the New England states fell from 50% to 36% and in New York it fell from 44% to 37%, while it rose in California from 29% to 37% and in Texas from 23% to 32%.


Overall the 1990-2008 ARIS time series shows that changes in religious self-identification in the first decade of the 21st century have been moderate in comparison to the 1990s, which was a period of significant shifts in the religious composition of the United States.

http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/American_religion_statistics

Why would you leave out religious switching, ghoti? cus you start out with a premise and follow it with fact?................... probably hispanic immigration ( And ) religious switching, according to the Facts, has made for a steady (relatively moderate) or increased religious belief....Catholicism being one (religious affiliation)....................... But if you are arguing for a decline in religious faith/belief (personal religious ID)...and you want to beLieve that more people are leaving religion (because of their turning away from God) you cannot do it with your own set of facts (your link).

ooo, maybe more people are getting married than in past, where the scenario looks like this: one partner is not Catholic but...before they marry, she or he turns Catholic to keep things kosher (and because they truly feel they become stronger and happier by switching or becoming a Catholic).

Are Hispanics loosing their religion or not ......and are they having fewer babies? Who cares....SWITCHING...that becomes the issue. But, again ...if you start out with the notion that you believe more people are leaving religion than they are 'finding Jesus or finding Any faith, AND, in conjunction, you note that the only ones holding strong To religion are the Catholics, then it behooves you to leave out the fact that people are not necessarily loosing their religion but rather Changing (switching) religions ...and to be really clear (ya'll still with me, cus I know I'm having fun,,,,even w/ my redundancy)) Paulwa, you are talking about people's faith/personal beliefs (yet when you write that they are turning to the Bible it sounds to Ghoti as though you mean they are turning to Christianity, period. I understand you to say what you do about the Bible because I, too, believe the Bible, and so...that is how we relate. by saying more are turning to the bible, i think you simply mean that there are more people wanting to find some religious faith to hold onto than ever before. And i agree...you just used the reference 'to the Bible' cus it's how you relate mostly) . Ghoti, on the otherhand, wants to run with what you wrote, LITERALLY, and prove you wrong. to prove you wrong, he has to take you by your written/posted 'word' and forget about what you really meant. You speak in 'religious faith or belief/personal religious identity...and he speaks in religious 'affiliation'<---and that is what he tries to prove w/ his set of facts. Ghoti, you can't do it with your facts. cus you two aren't on the same page.

Who knows, really, how many closet bible thumpers and readers of The Good Book there are. Who knows how many folk across the world stumbled into that closet on the way to the bathroom while smoking pot. Especially in the USa where pot is illegal and still sorta hush-hush. Who knows?


Edited by ævory (07/30/10 05:59 AM)

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#190411 - 07/30/10 07:30 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ævory]
ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
And by the same token, who knows how many people go to church, say the right things, openly claim to be Christian, and yet have serious doubts in their hearts? Those sorts of things are pretty much impossible to measure.

The numbers you get from polls will differ depending on how the questions are asked, but there's no doubt that neo-Pagan groups like Wicca are growing rapidly while membership in most main-stream churches is staying static at best. There isn't any proof to support the statement that more young people are turning to the Bible.

I talk to lots of younger people, probably since I was a teacher in this same small town and I see and have kept close contact with many former students. My opinion from talking to many of them is that there is a shift away from traditional authoritarian churches toward more open spirituality. Just what I see with no conclusive proof.

It doesn't really matter in the long run. People will always have a sense of something larger than themselves behind things and try to comprehend its nature. It isn't like the church with the most members is guaranteed to be more right than the others, after all.
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#190416 - 07/30/10 10:51 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ghoti]
Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
Thank God for Ronda's intelligence and her sability to clear up the fog of viewpoints. Thank you Ronda, I very much appreciate your candid views. Ghoti I believe we are in the very enmd of our age and that is why our views towards a personal religious way of life are being so cut and dried. I don't think there will be much to change us all at this point. The latter reign of God's spirit spoken of in the biblke is fslling n christian youth perhaps and the old will dream dreams and such. We are facing a big door that is beginning to open and we each know what we expect to find behind it according to our beliefs. I hope we all are satisfied but it does seem unlikely to play that way. I think the days of preachers are over anmd so many of our latter dsay preachers have brought it upon themselves just as the scribes and pharisees in the days of Jesus, and the same way lawyers are bringing distaste upon themselves. In the end, without God we will bring ourselves down and that is just following satans master plan. Ok, it is just my opinion, but isn't it at least interesting?
Paul

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#190434 - 07/30/10 07:19 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: Paulwa_dup1]
ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
We'll see, Paulwa. If God really is capricious enough to choose to save people strictly on how they choose to believe rather than their qualities as an individual then IMO the afterlife will be a truly f'd up place. If I'm to be condemned to burn in eternal hellfire for refusing to believe blindly then so be it, since I'll be in good company.

IMO it's a ridiculous concept, since many very evil people throughout history were devout Christian believers while many wonderful ones followed other faiths or none at all. IMO, the idea that God uses that as his main standard for sorting souls is just silly. It is an effective tool to scare people into attending church and fattening collection plates, however, which I believe is why preachers like to expound on it.
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#190439 - 07/30/10 08:40 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: MerryA]
ronniechoate34
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Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
Leviathan

a transliterated Hebrew word (livyathan), meaning "twisted,"
"coiled." In Job 3:8, Revised Version, and marg. of Authorized
Version, it denotes the dragon which, according to Eastern
tradition, is an enemy of light; in 41:1 the crocodile is meant;
in Ps. 104:26 it "denotes any large animal that moves by
writhing or wriggling the body, the whale, the monsters of the
deep." This word is also used figuratively for a cruel enemy, as
some think "the Egyptian host, crushed by the divine power, and
cast on the shores of the Red Sea" (Ps. 74:14). As used in Isa.
27:1, "leviathan the piercing R.V. 'swift' serpent, even
leviathan that crooked R.V. marg. 'winding' serpent," the word
may probably denote the two empires, the Assyrian and the
Babylonian.


Easton's Bible Dictionary


I doesn't simply mean whale.

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#190440 - 07/30/10 08:41 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
ronniechoate34
Member


Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
Isa:27:1: In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.


It's in the sea, see?

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#190442 - 07/30/10 09:30 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
ghoti
Member


Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
Ronnie, how much experience would most people in ancient Israel have had with the sea? The nation bordered on the Mediterranean so fishermen would have been out on the sea, but even they would have little knowledge of life below the surface.

They would have seen the fins of sharks and an occasional dolphin or whale but the undersea world was a total mystery. Look at all the myths that other cultures (especially the Greeks and Romans) had about exotic sea monsters.

Leviathon was likely a composite name given to sightings of variaous large fish and aquatic mammals that they didn't understand very well at all.
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#190445 - 07/30/10 10:21 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ghoti]
ronniechoate34
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Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
Originally Posted By: ghoti
Ronnie, how much experience would most people in ancient Israel have had with the sea? The nation bordered on the Mediterranean so fishermen would have been out on the sea, but even they would have little knowledge of life below the surface.

They would have seen the fins of sharks and an occasional dolphin or whale but the undersea world was a total mystery. Look at all the myths that other cultures (especially the Greeks and Romans) had about exotic sea monsters.

Leviathon was likely a composite name given to sightings of variaous large fish and aquatic mammals that they didn't understand very well at all.



Ghoti, you'd turn as white as a sheet and possibly die of fright if you were to ever stumble upon the likes of those things that God has hidden from your sight.


Job:41:19: Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
Job:41:20: Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
Job:41:21: His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.


Nope, that don't sound like no fish that I've ever heard of before.


Job:41:31: He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
Job:41:32: He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.
Job:41:33: Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.
Job:41:34: He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.


Yup. That's one weirdo fish.


Edited by ronniechoate34 (07/30/10 10:22 PM)

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#190447 - 07/30/10 11:43 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
ghoti
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It's scary only if you take those descriptions literally. How would the author of Job ever seen this animal in order to describe it accurately?

It's far more likely that Leviathan was just another sea monster myth similar to the Kraken and sea serpents that early sailors of other cultures feared. There certainly is a lot we don't know about the depths of the oceans, but I'll be very surprised if there are many extremely large critters down there yet to be found.
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#190448 - 07/31/10 04:40 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ghoti]
corlorde
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Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 9246
Originally Posted By: ghoti


Leviathon was likely a composite name given to sightings of variaous large fish and aquatic mammals that they didn't understand very well at all.


Or it might have been a "bigger woman of yore" who was "leviathan in girth and bosom"
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#190450 - 07/31/10 08:50 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
ronniechoate34
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Registered: 02/06/10
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Loc: tennerida





http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2006/08/28/unknown-creature-was-found-by-soldiers/


Edited by ronniechoate34 (07/31/10 08:51 AM)

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#190451 - 07/31/10 09:44 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
starlight.2
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Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 793
while i agree that the ocean is vastly under-explored and it is entirely plausible that there are undiscovered species of animals in the more remote areas, it's kind of a stretch to imagine an animal from the waters near eastern russia could have been encountered anywhere around the mediterranean region.
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#190453 - 07/31/10 09:59 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
starlight.2
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Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 793
Originally Posted By: ronniechoate34
Noah was instructed to take two of every kind of animal. Not two of every kind of the various species of animals and the like. Just two cats, two birds, two horses, etc.


the number of insects alone would have been overwhelming.
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#190454 - 07/31/10 10:00 AM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ghoti]
starlight.2
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Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 793
Originally Posted By: ghoti
If he didn't take two of every species, then wouldn't that be proof that animals can evolve into different species after he released them?


........still waiting for answer
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#190458 - 07/31/10 12:13 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: starlight.2]
SteveGIMP
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The story of Noah saving all land animals on the ark is one of the most patently ridiculous things in the Bible. The fact that some believe this fairy tale included dinosaurs just makes it all the more laughable.
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#190460 - 07/31/10 12:24 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: SteveGIMP]
Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
First to Ghoti who still see's man as then originator of the bible..uh uh,.,God wrote the bible and I think He knew what He was talking about even though the writers man not have had a clue at the time they wrote. They wrote as the spirit of God moved them.

For Star and Steve the same answer God told Noah how to build an ark to His specs. God brought the creatures to the ark and put them aboard and when all was inside to His satisfaction, He closed the door and poured the water. Simple!
Paul

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#190462 - 07/31/10 01:12 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: Paulwa_dup1]
ronniechoate34
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Registered: 02/06/10
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Loc: tennerida
Baraminology is the study of the biblical created kinds. The term baraminology is derived from the Hebrew words bara, which means “to create,” and min, which means “kind.” This field of study shows, for example, that the many dog species that we find throughout the world today—including the coyote, the wolf, the fox, the border collie, and the jackal—may all descend from one original created kind, created by God on Day 6 of Creation Week.
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#190463 - 07/31/10 01:14 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
ronniechoate34
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Registered: 02/06/10
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#190464 - 07/31/10 01:14 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: SteveGIMP]
ævory
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
Originally Posted By: SteveGIMP
The story of Noah saving all land animals on the ark is one of the most patently ridiculous things in the Bible. The fact that some believe this fairy tale included dinosaurs just makes it all the more laughable.
Oh! Good to have you home, Steve. Now if you could get the rest of the flock to come home...Confucious say: He who setteth the path for flock, leadeth the flock to flee. Set flock Flee, steve

and you all know it's more fun, here, too

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#190465 - 07/31/10 01:16 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: Paulwa_dup1]
flicka
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Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
Originally Posted By: Paulwa_dup1
First to Ghoti who still see's man as then originator of the bible..uh uh,.,God wrote the bible and I think He knew what He was talking about even though the writers man not have had a clue at the time they wrote. They wrote as the spirit of God moved them.

Isn't it interesting that this is also a claim to the authenticity of the Quran?
Quote:
Some years ago, the story came to us in Toronto about a man who was in the merchant marine and made his living on the sea. A Muslim gave him a translation of the Qur'an to read. The merchant marine knew nothing about the history of Islam but was interested in reading the Qur'an. When he finished reading it, he brought it back to the Muslim and asked, "This Muhammed, was he a sailor?" He was impressed at how accurately the Qur'an describes a storm on a sea. When he was told, "No as a matter of fact, Muhammed lived in the desert," that was enough for him. He embraced Islam on the spot. He was so impressed with the Qur'an's description because he had been in a storm on the sea, and he knew that whoever had written that description had also been in a storm on the sea. The description of "a wave, over it a wave, over it clouds" was not what someone imagining a storm on a sea to be like would have written; rather, it was written by someone who knew what a storm on the sea was like. This is one example of how the Qur'an is not tied to a certain place and time. Certainly, the scientific ideas expressed in it also do not seem to originate from the desert fourteen centuries ago. source
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#190469 - 07/31/10 01:38 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: Paulwa_dup1]
shakey56
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Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
Originally Posted By: Paulwa_dup1
First to Ghoti who still see's man as then originator of the bible..uh uh,.,God wrote the bible and I think He knew what He was talking about even though the writers man not have had a clue at the time they wrote. They wrote as the spirit of God moved them.

For Star and Steve the same answer God told Noah how to build an ark to His specs. God brought the creatures to the ark and put them aboard and when all was inside to His satisfaction, He closed the door and poured the water. Simple!
Paul


Something/one's simple, but it ain't the fairy tale.
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#190471 - 07/31/10 01:45 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
shakey56
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Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
Originally Posted By: ronniechoate34
Baraminology is the study of the biblical created kinds. The term baraminology is derived from the Hebrew words bara, which means “to create,” and min, which means “kind.” This field of study shows, for example, that the many dog species that we find throughout the world today—including the coyote, the wolf, the fox, the border collie, and the jackal—may all descend from one original created kind, created by God on Day 6 of Creation Week.


lmfao...yeah, right! Show us a single nonchristian science site that recognizes this nonsense as science.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.

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#190472 - 07/31/10 01:54 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: shakey56]
flicka
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Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
National Geo published a series on this I believe. At the time we had our hybrid wolf & the weener dog. I remember laughing and saying that I was sure the weener had evolved from a ferret or somesuch.
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#190474 - 07/31/10 02:09 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: flicka]
ronniechoate34
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Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
Originally Posted By: flicka
National Geo published a series on this I believe. At the time we had our hybrid wolf & the weener dog. I remember laughing and saying that I was sure the weener had evolved from a ferret or somesuch.



Why were/are you so sure that the weener dog has evolved from a ferret? I've seen both many times, and they appear to be different in many ways.

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#190477 - 07/31/10 02:34 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
flicka
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Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
Originally Posted By: ronniechoate34

Why were/are you so sure that the weener dog has evolved from a ferret? I've seen both many times, and they appear to be different in many ways.

Because the weener was a mini, 20+ inches long, vicious & burrowing. He was constantly getting stuck going down rabbit holes, too.

Mainly I said it as a joke because his resemblance to the wolf & its behavior were light years apart...although I did see our wolfy guy listen to the ground and then quickly scoop out a gopher a couple of times.


Edited by flicka (07/31/10 02:35 PM)
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#190481 - 07/31/10 02:46 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: flicka]
ronniechoate34
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Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida

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#190484 - 07/31/10 03:30 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: ronniechoate34]
Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
Unless you become as a little child (peaceful, loving, trusting My Opinion) you will not see the kingdom of heaven. According to our creator.
Paul

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#190494 - 07/31/10 04:08 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: Paulwa_dup1]
shakey56
Member


Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
You'd have to have a child's reasoning ability to buy the bible literally.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.

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#190499 - 07/31/10 06:24 PM Re: a question for the young-earth creationists... [Re: shakey56]
Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
Could be right Shakey..at least that is what jesus says and it suits me fine. Adult know it alls cause all the trouble in this world.
Paul

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