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#190350 - 07/29/10 10:54 AM Re: For Paulwa... [Re: ghoti]
Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
Ghoti God arranged the animals to go aboard the ark and the dinosaurs could have been babies or even eggs in some cases. With God all things are possible. Ronnie isn't as far off as some of you imagine. He just gets angry with unbelievers and their beliefs. I have met many with this anger and have felt it myself at times. But God wants us to learn to love everybody, even those we may see as enemies. Yes even extremist muslims if they will let us which most won't. God expects us tyo defend ourslves from unreasonable people too.
Paul

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#190359 - 07/29/10 11:22 AM Re: For Paulwa... [Re: Paulwa_dup1]
shakey56
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Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
Loving someone is not a matter of them letting you. Work on being a better Christian, brother Paul
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.

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#190362 - 07/29/10 11:29 AM Re: For Paulwa... [Re: shakey56]
Paulwa_dup1
Member


Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
Yep! I try and die daily and can always do better than I do when I am able...BTW PQ is down..
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#190367 - 07/29/10 12:09 PM Re: For Paulwa... [Re: Paulwa_dup1]
ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
Paulwa, you know the ark could have never carried two of every animal on earth even of those alive today, let alone Noah being able to gather them from all the far continents. The author of that passage either meant it as an allegory or didn't understand how big the world really is and how many different species exist.

I imagine the few species known to primitive people in the middle-east in those days would have fit, and that seems what the author had in mind. It's a ridiculous idea based on modern knowledge.

You can always brush it aside by saying "with God, all things are possible" but that's just ducking the issue. I'd be far more impressed with the Bible if it had talked about carrying eggs and sperm or genetic samples since those things were unknown back then.
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#190394 - 07/29/10 06:55 PM Re: For Paulwa... [Re: ghoti]
Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
Several scientists say there was plenty of room for all the animals on the ark and gave the math to prove it. They have convinced me but it is up to you to make up your own mind.
Paul

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#190402 - 07/29/10 08:27 PM Re: For Paulwa... [Re: Paulwa_dup1]
ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
See, you keep saying stuff like that with no proof. Please post a link to those scientists, or else don't use them as evidence.

A cubit was about 18" long, so the Bible says the Ark was about 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet deep. That's good-sized, but tiny compared to cargo ships and oil tankers of today.

Creating stalls for every animal species that exists today, let alone extinct species, would be impossible. Then there's the matter of feeding and watering them all and mucking out the stalls with so few people.

It couldn't be done unless they just carried DNA samples and used cloning technology to regrow the animals later. If the Bible said something like that I'd be impressed, but it clearly doesn't.

Here's a very thorough study of the problems, complete with references:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
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#190409 - 07/30/10 06:19 AM Re: For Paulwa... [Re: ghoti]
ævory
Member


Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
Originally Posted By: ghoti
See, you keep saying stuff like that with no proof. Please post a link to those scientists, or else don't use them as evidence.




That Would make this more interesting and fun. I agree. But really, are you saying you can't google any up? I mean, he's just sayin', ya know....kinda like you do on other stuff. And we all do, from time to time. The Bible is his final evidence, anyway, and so everyone knows that it would be a waste of his time. lol, are you trying to say it is a waste of his time to say something without googling it?


Edited by ævory (07/30/10 06:21 AM)

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#190410 - 07/30/10 06:50 AM Re: For Paulwa... [Re: ævory]
ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
Here's what Paulwa said:

Quote:
Several scientists say there was plenty of room for all the animals on the ark and gave the math to prove it.


What's wrong with my asking to see a link so I can see for myself? I know that several people have done the math to prove exactly the opposite, and I posted a link to a very in-depth study of the subject.

If someone says they believe something is true, then it's their choice as long as they don't demand that others believe it, too.. But if they say they have proof, then they have an obligation to demonstrate it themselves or at least provide a link.
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#190417 - 07/30/10 11:01 AM Re: For Paulwa... [Re: ghoti]
Paulwa_dup1
Member


Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
Just proof to myself Ghoti because the scientists are cristian and thus creationisst oriented. No point to post even if I had that information. Just stating why I disagree with the information that you have been posting because your sources discredit God. When that happens there is no argument worth talking about for a christian. But because I am here I have to post my disagreement whether I choose to argue with some one very unlikely to change their minds. Changing minds is not my job either but is the job of the Holy Spirit. So if it doesn't happen then that is His results and His reasons for it.
Paul

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#190418 - 07/30/10 11:20 AM Re: For Paulwa... [Re: Paulwa_dup1]
ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
Just because a source may contradict your interpretation of the Bible, it doesn't mean it necessarily challenges God. IMO the Bible is just an old book written back when people had a very limited understanding of their world and science. Because of that, many of the stories it contains are obviously only allegories and not meant to be taken literally.

You, of course, are free to disagree. Our view of the creator is very different, but at least we agree that he exists. We'll both find out the real truth soon enough, so why obsess about the details now?
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#190424 - 07/30/10 01:04 PM Re: For Paulwa... [Re: ghoti]
boogerman
Member


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 43
The Old testament is a wonderful teaching tool, some of the stories may even be true, not at all unlike Jesus useing parables as teaching tools.
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#190431 - 07/30/10 05:28 PM Re: For Paulwa... [Re: boogerman]
ronniechoate34
Member


Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
Is it true that Wicca is older than Christianity? I've heard that from people who claim to be Wiccans. Does anyone believe that's true?
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#190432 - 07/30/10 07:05 PM Re: For Paulwa... [Re: ronniechoate34]
ghoti
Member


Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
People in northern Europe (including the Gauls, Goths, and Britons, among others) followed a variety of Pagan religions back into the very distant past. Wicca was one of them, but since most of those people were illiterate very little in the way of detailed records exist outside of what the Romans wrote about them.

Wicca has never been a highly organized religion, and the modern version is mostly a revival of old ideas rather than a smooth continuation. Hardly surprising, since Wicca was very brutally suppressed by Christians for a long, long time.
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.

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#190438 - 07/30/10 08:35 PM Re: For Paulwa... [Re: ghoti]
ronniechoate34
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Registered: 02/06/10
Posts: 540
Loc: tennerida
Originally Posted By: ghoti
People in northern Europe (including the Gauls, Goths, and Britons, among others) followed a variety of Pagan religions back into the very distant past. Wicca was one of them, but since most of those people were illiterate very little in the way of detailed records exist outside of what the Romans wrote about them.

Wicca has never been a highly organized religion, and the modern version is mostly a revival of old ideas rather than a smooth continuation. Hardly surprising, since Wicca was very brutally suppressed by Christians for a long, long time.


Is that right?


I doubt it. But you seem to like the sound of it so it doesn't matter what I say about it.

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#190441 - 07/30/10 09:16 PM Re: For Paulwa... [Re: ronniechoate34]
ghoti
Member


Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
What do you think is incorrect about it? Here's a quote from a well-respected unbiased source:

Quote:
Wicca is a religion based, in part, on ancient, northern European Pagan beliefs in a fertility Goddess and her consort, a horned God. Although the religion is a modern creation, some of its sources pre-date the Christian era by many centuries.


http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_hist.htm

The modern Wiccan faith is a recent religion (established around 1950 in England) that is based on what little is actually known of the ancient religion by the same name. My daughter and several of her friends are Wiccan plus a friend of mine is an ordained Wiccan priest (as I've said earlier) so my knowledge of it is fairly direct.


Edited by ghoti (07/30/10 09:19 PM)
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