#189167 - 07/14/10 04:45 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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The last I knew the Pope believed in the rapture according to Jack Van Impe.
So I should just drop my firm beliefs and follow all the churches who don't believe like I do? Rediculous Shakey.
Paul
No, but you should allow for the possibility that you are wrong. I said nothing abt you following them, but they could be right. It's called respect, something you tend to lose when discussing religion.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#189168 - 07/14/10 04:48 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: corlorde]
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corlorde
Member
Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 9246
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Ronda, how on earth would adding the words "under God" to the pledge possibly protect anyone from being persecuted for their beliefs? If I put it in the context of the time it was added, I definitley see how. If "Under God" was was added as an answer to communism, then it tells believers, of all faiths, you are protected, under the US Flag and Constitution...no matter what (god, no god, whatever) you believe in, you are protected. As you are aware, most people, believe in "something". It is GUARANTEED under our laws. But under communism, you are not protected. Come on professor, critical thinking skills.
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#189169 - 07/14/10 04:53 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: corlorde]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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Gotta disagree. Under God excludes those who don't believe.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#189170 - 07/14/10 04:56 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: shakey56]
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corlorde
Member
Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 9246
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Gotta disagree. Under God excludes those who don't believe.
Ok, no problem.
But given the context of the time, I can definitley see why it was added...back to my original point.
Edited by corlorde (07/14/10 04:58 PM)
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#189172 - 07/14/10 05:02 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: corlorde]
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shakey56
Member
Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 1889
Loc: where the wild roadrunners roa...
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I can too. We do this every time we are drumming up support for our latest and all too often unnecessary war. Gotta make the enemy out to be as bad as possible. After all they want to shoot our women, fvck our dogs make us all into them.
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Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
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#189173 - 07/14/10 05:02 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: corlorde]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Belief in God is certainly protected by our Constitution, but so is DISBELIEF. Adding those two words is a direct implication that anyone who doesn't believe in God is excluded, and at least one of our ex-presidents obviously saw it that way, too.
I have no problem with the rest of the pledge as an affirmation of loyalty to our country. Why not just replace the words "under God" with "under our Constitution" and leave religion out of it?
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#189174 - 07/14/10 05:07 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: ghoti]
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corlorde
Member
Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 9246
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Why not just replace the words "under God" with "under our Constitution" and leave religion out of it?
I was speaking in the context of the times, where you stated you had no idea why it was added and I explained why it probably was. I even gave my reasons.
Ronda, how on earth would adding the words "under God" to the pledge possibly protect anyone from being persecuted for their beliefs?
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#189175 - 07/14/10 05:08 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: ghoti]
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corlorde
Member
Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 9246
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Belief in God is certainly protected by our Constitution
No such protections exist, or existed under communism.
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#189176 - 07/14/10 05:08 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: ghoti]
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inkblister
Member
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 231
Loc: Land of Debris...
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I've always thought either returning the pledge to without the "under god" would be most appropriate... Or to keep the newer "rhythm" of the pledge intact, change "under god" to "united"...
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#189177 - 07/14/10 05:10 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: inkblister]
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corlorde
Member
Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 9246
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I always like the "Under God" portion but respect the integrity of what it says, either way.
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#189179 - 07/14/10 05:22 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: corlorde]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."
- Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865).
http://oldtimeislands.org/pledge/pdgech8.htm
In a 1955 Affidavit before a Notary Public of Cook County, Illinois, Louis A. Bowman (1872-1959) officially claimed to be the first person to initiate the practice of reciting "under God" in the Pledge. He was a member of the Board of Governors of the Illinois Society of the Sons of the American Revolution and served as its Chaplin. He lived in Oak Park-a suburb of Chicago.
On Lincoln's Birthday, February 12, 1948, at a meeting of the lllinois Society of the Sons of the American Revolution, he lead them in repeating the Pledge with the added two words, "under God," after "one nation." The National Society of Daughters of the American Revolution and its Chicago Chapter gave him an Award of Merit as the originator of this idea.
Bowman explained to the Society that in adding the words, "under God," they were following the precedent established by Abraham Lincoln in his Gettysburg Address. At the end of this Address, Lincoln said, "this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom-and that, government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth." (Lincoln inserted the words, "under God," extemporaneously, for they do not appear in his written draft.)
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You can read more about the leaders in the movement to add "Under God" to the Pledge, 1948 to 1954 at the link posted here.
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#189180 - 07/14/10 05:24 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: corlorde]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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I wasn't saying I didn't know why those words were added. Of course they were added because communist political doctrine denies the existence of God. OTOH our system protects all belief systems.
My response to Ronda was because she was saying that version of the pledge protected people from persecution. and I saw it differently. The pledge doesn't protect anyone, the Constitution does.
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#189182 - 07/14/10 05:28 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: inkblister]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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I've always thought either returning the pledge to without the "under god" would be most appropriate... Or to keep the newer "rhythm" of the pledge intact, change "under god" to "united"...
I think, ya all...ghoti, shakey and you are just too dang unbusy to be making such a big, personal, and agenda-based- bunch- of chasing after paulwa's posts..and, other peoples' posts...just...because...you...got...a...bug...up...your...butts. 
I have rarely if ever seen Paulwa take a PERONAL, individual stab (insult) to any of youse and ...well, yer nasty. ga-nite
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#189184 - 07/14/10 05:38 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: ghoti]
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flicka
Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Anybody is free to believe whatever they like, but when you talk about the pre-trib rapture as if it's some proven fact and claim that nearly all Christians accept it then you're going too far.
I'll admit it still makes me cringe when Paul posts as if us Christians know we'll escape death, etc. before things get too bad on earth.
It is a belief which I will never accept as there is just no proof. The wheat & the tares will grow together until the end of the world. It can't be more clearly said than that, in my opinion.
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#189187 - 07/14/10 05:49 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: inkblister]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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I was an atheist for most of my adult life, and the words "one nation, under God" very plainly and clearly meant that folks like me were being excluded IMO. IMO, you are full of shit. I'm with ghoti on this one... As a Buddhist I have always felt the same way, that because I did not believe in a god, my family and I were somehow unwelcomed and undeserving of living in the U.S...
OMG OMG!!! ok, i am reading this now for the first time, unbelievable. do you know how crazy YOU sound? no, really....lets turn that mirro back on you guys. do you see how crazy it looks? its like you guys have some kind of axe to grind....ding ding ding...no f'ing wonder alllll these years on these boards I and others have received the bullshit we have for expressing what we believe. UnF'ing believable. HEY. you who wrote this....it is your problem, it is NOT the problem of other atheists or other nonbelievers, and I guarantee you that. Quit f'ing with paulwa over his opinion because IT IS HIS OWN OPINION...i don't care if he says its based on the Bible or the Pope or next years' newspaper yet to come out.....how in the WORLD can you say that he speaks as though it were the gospel truth and such????? its his opinion. let it sink in. And ...maybe....you can receive the same wish that i have for him...that is, to be let alone to say what he wants without a pile on of posters and this stupid neurotic obsession with him.
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