#189094 - 07/14/10 09:02 AM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: ghoti]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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Ghoti, you should have questioned your teacher.
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#189096 - 07/14/10 09:13 AM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: ghoti]
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corlorde
Member
Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 9246
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Ronda, how on earth would adding the words "under God" to the pledge possibly protect anyone from being persecuted for their beliefs?
If I put it in the context of the time it was added, I definitley see how.
If "Under God" was was added as an answer to communism, then it tells believers, of all faiths, you are protected, under the US Flag and Constitution...no matter what (god, no god, whatever) you believe in, you are protected. As you are aware, most people, believe in "something". It is GUARANTEED under our laws. But under communism, you are not protected.
Come on professor, critical thinking skills.
Edited by corlorde (07/14/10 09:15 AM)
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#189099 - 07/14/10 09:18 AM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: corlorde]
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starlight.2
Member
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 793
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the cold war is over.
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Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of real peace.
--Dalai Lama
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#189100 - 07/14/10 09:18 AM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: starlight.2]
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corlorde
Member
Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 9246
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Is it? As someone who knows when I die, I'm probably going nowhere other than an oven and then my ashes in the lake, I have a hard time believing that the cold war is over. But hey, you'll educate me, I'm sure. And please, no bullet points.
Professor, critical thinking skills. I preempted my comments with, "in context of the times". Now, kids do not recite the Pledge in class. I know mine don't. I do not know what the schools in Texas are doing but I believe we have lost something along the way, but I admit I am biased. I praise my country and traditions every day, and will put a hand over my heart to recite the pledge and I have no problem with it.
Edited by corlorde (07/14/10 09:36 AM)
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#189102 - 07/14/10 09:48 AM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: corlorde]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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If you were a loyal citizen who was atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Hindu, Native American, Pagan, etc. back when "under God" was added to the pledge I can't see how you would feel your rights were being protected by it. The movement to add those words was pretty much entirely led by Christian believers.
ETA: those words were added right at the very peak of the anti-communism fervor during the McCarthy years. That wasn't just a coincidence.
Edited by ghoti (07/14/10 09:54 AM)
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#189104 - 07/14/10 10:07 AM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: ghoti]
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Greg
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Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 10000
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The original Bellamy salute for the pledge required by school children:
sieg heil
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#189105 - 07/14/10 10:09 AM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: ghoti]
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corlorde
Member
Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 9246
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agnostic, Buddhist, Hindu, Native American, Pagan, etc. back when "under God" was added to the pledge I can't see how you would feel your rights were being protected by it.
Not one kid in the US is forced to say, or do, anything, are they?
If I lived under a Government who protected the rights of all believers (which I do), and the pledge does not say, "under the Judeo–Christian version of things" I pledge allegiance, I have no problem with it. Your list? They all have different views. My view? "Under God" can mean anything. Even if your "God" is ass and pussy, like mine is. "God" is the "creator". Whether we crawled out of the mud in some mysterious soup, crash landed from another planet, or was born from some some higher being. Who gives a [censored]? I guess I just identify with Christianity more. But I am not going to run into a shopping mall with my gun while carrying the King James. Unless, if my did it, haha.
Edited by corlorde (07/14/10 10:12 AM)
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#189106 - 07/14/10 10:10 AM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: Greg]
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corlorde
Member
Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 9246
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The original Bellamy salute for the pledge required by school children: sieg heil
I know you are capable of more than that, Greg.
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#189107 - 07/14/10 10:50 AM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: corlorde]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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I was an atheist for most of my adult life, and the words "one nation, under God" very plainly and clearly meant that folks like me were being excluded IMO. Just another small example of the way Christians have tried to force their belief system onto all others.
Remember the incident when a reporter asked Bush Sr. his opinion of atheists? His reply was that he felt they weren't true US citizens.
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#189112 - 07/14/10 11:42 AM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: ghoti]
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ævory
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Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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ghoti, did they ask him under oath or under the influence of...
and, was there a Rolling Stones reporter there?
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#189114 - 07/14/10 12:13 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: ævory]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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When George Bush was campaigning for the presidency, as incumbent vice-president, one of his stops was in Chicago, Illinois, on August 27, 1987. At O'Hare Airport he held a formal outdoor news conference. There Robert I. Sherman, a reporter for the American Atheist news journal, fully accredited by the state of Illinois and by invitation a participating member of the press corps covering the national candidates, had the following exchange with then-Vice-President Bush.
Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?
Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me.
Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?
Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.
Sherman (somewhat taken aback): Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?
Bush: Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ghwbush.htm
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#189118 - 07/14/10 12:31 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in B
[Re: ghoti]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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And so, he put his neck out there on the line.
For that, he lost the vote of, i'm, sure, many Americans who..perhaps, were atheists (etc).
So? You want to base discrimination upon an answer from a presidential candidate....get that?---> a presidential caondidate, not the pres. at the time...boo hoo for saying something so stupid. But, anyway, he obviously was not concerned about his opinion, of faith or non-faith, making or breaking his getting elected. Good for him! But, thanks for the 'good' link there.
Edited by ævory (07/14/10 12:35 PM)
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#189120 - 07/14/10 12:43 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in B
[Re: ævory]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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When we declared our independence from Great Britain, England, and Eisenhower signed into the document the words 'under God' it was in the spirit of the times...corey says it best.
we are all endowed, by our creator, to have the same freedoms yada yada yada.
Somewhere, along the way, some extremes from both ends of religion got too mouthy and out-there....and Now, it's like, anyone with any religious notion of exhibiting their faith other than in a church or behind closed doors...well, has to look over their shoulder to make sure some ExTremes aren't right there to Axe it, pronto. I'm glad I don't live that way. It makes for a lot of busy work.
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#189121 - 07/14/10 12:45 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Thank you so much for posting this piece on the rapture Ronda..it is 100 per cent accurate from my studies.
Ghoti you are totally wrong and all those churchs you mentioned are wrong too. The only difference between you and them is that they have accepted Jesus as their savior and from all your own words..you haven't accepted Jesus as your saviour. Thus suprised they may be at their wrongness about the timing ofthe rapture..they will be caught up anyway. Those who haven't, will be left to go through the tribulation. Yes there will be christians on earth during the tribulation and who will refuse taking the mark. Many of them will be martyerd (sp) but they knew the bible well enough to recognze the rapture of the church and repent. There will be 144,000 Jews who will call Jesus their Lord during the 3 and a half last years.
Paul
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#189123 - 07/14/10 12:49 PM
Re: Read The King James Bible - Apocrypha Not in Bible
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ævory
Member
Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 9657
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Yer welcome, paul.
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