#187960 - 06/16/10 11:22 AM
Re: Who are these spirits?
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Jesus showed that he had serious uncertainties about his divinity at several points within the gospels. According to Matthew 27:46 his final words while dying on the cross were " My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?", which certainly implies that he had doubts even at that point. If he knew that he and God had equal status, why in the world would he say such a thing?
God as depicted in the Old Testament is very often angry, vindictive, and even cruel while the New Testament God emphasizes kindness, love, and compassion. Makes you wonder whether God changed or if the people writing the books just had a different perspective.
Flicka, you got off easy. Our pastor accused me of heresy and blasphemy when I used to bring up questions like these in Bible study class back when I was a teenager.
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#187979 - 06/16/10 03:49 PM
Re: Who are these spirits?
[Re: ghoti]
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Paul I
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Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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When Jesus died he was man.
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"...only the shadow knows"
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#187986 - 06/16/10 06:34 PM
Re: Who are these spirits?
[Re: Paul I]
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Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I agree PaulI. But when God ressurected Him He was Lord and part of the trinity. The new info out on the shroud of turin has scientists crawling all over it. One physicist thinks the shroud holds a moment of singularity much like the one of the Big Bang and there are many scientists searching the fibers for holographic information. It s the only image thay cannot understand that is two dimensonal but ewith 3 dmensional holographiic data.There is also some flower patterns on the cloth but they hold only twodimensional information and they are all flowers of Jerusalem according to the state botanist of Israel who verified them. They think that at the moment the image formed the body floated halfway between the upper and lower sheets of cloth and they were perfectly stretched and flat when the mage formed. I have ordered the DVD called 'The Fabric of Time' that I saw on Trinity Broadcasting Network Movie series. It was mind blowing. Of course many people with this new information think it definately was Jesus Christs burial cloths at the time of His ressurection. There was a face shroud that was seperated from the main shroud for centuries that when they lad it against the shroud it fit perfectly from the blood patterns. the blood was AB on both and the material in both were from the same time period of Jerusalem.The clincher was thay found marks of coins on Hs eyes of which the right one had four letters on it and a shepherds crook emblem. That coin circulated in 29 ad.
The carbon dating that was done was thrown out when it was proven to be from a patch used later on to mend burn marks and was put in using perfect weave method and was proven to be fact under the microscope.
Paul
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#187992 - 06/16/10 08:14 PM
Re: Who are these spirits?
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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There are lots of unanswered questions about the shroud that could be answered if small samples of the material could be directly examined, but that is no long allowed. Even if tests showed it to be older than the mid-1300's date that the first three samples showed, it would be far from proof that it had any connection with Jesus.
The burden of proof lies with those who claim that it is the actual burial shroud of Jesus, and the church leaders refuse to allow any more testing so we'll never know. I'm skeptical, since there have been so many religious fakes and hoaxes of various types perpetrated over the years.
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#188007 - 06/17/10 12:13 PM
Re: Who are these spirits?
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I understand your questioning, Ghoti. I have finally fallen in with those who do believe it is the actual burial cloth that has recorded the ressurection power of Jesus..but unless the shroud releases more of material for testing we won't be able to prove anything. I ordered the video I talked about and maybe can after viewing it again bring some scientists by name and their work here for discussion. I think this will be a great subject for discussion here, don't you?
Paul
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#188011 - 06/17/10 02:07 PM
Re: Who are these spirits?
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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MerryA
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Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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While Jesus was on earth prior to his death and resurrection, He was human and divine - He is God come to earth in human form. He is the Son and God.
I do not believe that Jesus had doubts of his divinity. The cry from the cross, to me, was the human Jesus who was fully sufferning a horrific death.
Not logical? It isn't. The relationship of the Trinity (three being one) is part of mystery of faith. You either accept it or you don't. It cannot be explained fully in human terms because it is not man made.
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#188066 - 06/18/10 05:12 PM
Re: Who are these spirits?
[Re: MerryA]
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Paul I
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Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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What is it with these relics that either disappear or make tightly controlled appearances usually under the auspices of some religious organization or government? What are they afraid of?
I remember as a teen ager studying about the Roman and Greek gods and goddesses. The feeling was that polytheism was heretical, misguided and wrong which is why it doesn't exist. Yet Christians have angels, archangels, cheribim, seraphime, cast out angels,spirits and so on. To me it gets weird to the point where it's more like Harry Potter than a religion so that portion I reject as the mythology of the scribes who may have been partially out of touch with reality or simply enhancing things for popular appeal.
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#188069 - 06/18/10 05:46 PM
Re: Who are these spirits?
[Re: Paul I]
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Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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PaulI the Jewish bible has changed more lives than any other writing in the world..ever. That should say something about man and his intelligence for picking that book above all others because of its overall content.
Paul
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#188077 - 06/18/10 06:27 PM
Re: Who are these spirits?
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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MerryA
Member
Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 10887
Loc: Tennessee
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PaulI the Jewish bible has changed more lives than any other writing in the world..ever.
Not really - Christianity (Protestant and Catholic) is the worlds largest religion with about 2.0 billion followers, followed by Islam with around 1.5 billion and then Hinduism in third with about 900 million. However, when split into denominations, Sunni Muslims, is the largest denomination.
What is the world polultion now? Seems there are some people not being counted. LOL
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"I was curious. Since I'm not a cat, that's not dangerous."
- Greg House
76.22.172.94
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#188089 - 06/18/10 10:30 PM
Re: Who are these spirits?
[Re: MerryA]
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Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I consider the Jewishbible to cover Judaism, Christianity too. The new testament derives from the foundation of the old testament.
Paul
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#189236 - 07/15/10 10:04 AM
Re: Who are these spirits?
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Merry, the current world population is estimated to be about 6.9 billion. Remember that there are about 1.3 billion living in communist China, which is officially atheist. Buddhism and various African and Asian religiouns also add up to a significant number of followers.
Catholics make up by far the largest single sub-group of Christians world-wide.
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#189307 - 07/15/10 07:04 PM
Re: Who are these spirits?
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I heard a pastor say that christianity is growing faster than any other religion world wide. I think he could be right. The bible speaks of the latter rain where God will pour out His spirit to all who turn to Him. These could be the days.
Paul
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#189323 - 07/16/10 03:33 AM
Re: Who are these spirits?
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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The Catholic church membership is growing rapidly world-wide, mainly due to the high birth rate in South America. Islam and Hinduism are also growing rapidly because the birth rate in their countries is also very high.
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