#186990 - 05/19/10 06:14 PM
Obama & Calderon talk down Arizona law
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YosemiteSam
Member
Registered: 05/20/00
Posts: 5386
Loc: No. Calif. (SF Bay Area)
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I watched the Press Conference (they only took 2 questions) this morning and wasn't satisfied with the remarks of Obama or Calderon.
I tried to find out what kind of treatment Mexico gives to Guatamalans at the border. More searching is required, but so far what I found isn't looking too good. Do Mexican border guards really have shoot to kill orders? Yahoo Answers
This may be anecdotal so I'll keep looking. Anyone else have anything to add?
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 Bob
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#187045 - 05/20/10 01:52 PM
Re: Obama & Calderon talk down Arizona law
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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YosemiteSam
Member
Registered: 05/20/00
Posts: 5386
Loc: No. Calif. (SF Bay Area)
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Mexico's Treatment of Immigrants:
This is a "must read", all the way through !!!
1. If you migrate to this county, you must speak the native language
2. You have to be a professional or an investor. No unskilled workers
allowed.
3. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools, no
special ballots for elections, all government business will be
conducted
in our language.
4. Foreigners will NOT have the right to vote no matter how long they
are here.
5 Foreigners will NEVER be able to hold political office.
6. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no
food
stamps, no health care, or other government assistance programs.
7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount
equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
8. If foreigners do come and want to buy land that will be okay, BUT
options will be restricted. You are not allowed waterfront property.
That is reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
9. Foreigners may not protest; no demonstrations, no waving a foreign
flag, no political organizing, no badmouthing our president or his
policies, if you do you will be sent home.
10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be hunted down
and sent straight to jail.
Harsh, you say? The above laws belong to the immigration laws of
MEXICO!
Snopes
_________________________
Bob
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#187122 - 05/22/10 01:23 PM
Re: Obama & Calderon talk down Arizona law
[Re: YosemiteSam]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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If the Fed's would follow the law, Arizona would not have had to write their own law. I don't know why Mexicans can't just get a seasonal work permit or longer work permit if their jobs are more lengthy, easily with certain specifications of their paying for medical, educatonal, tax's etc.while they are here. Maybe with a portion of their checks going into a family fund to pay for those services if needed and then returned if no bills occur before they return to Mexico. Without citizenshiip stays must be limited to a certan maximum stay and could not be renewed for a certain period of years. The way it isthe laws make Mexicans for the most part illegal.
Paul
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#187158 - 05/22/10 09:48 PM
Re: Obama & Calderon talk down Arizona law
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Authorities have looked the other way on the illegal immigration situation for around 100 years or so because a lot of people have been making huge profits off them. Most of the illegals are here because someone is willing to break the law by hiring them.
If we were serious about solving this they come down hard on all the employers who hire them. Dry up the jobs and most of the illegals would go back home.
Unless we do that they'll keep reutrning just as fast as we send them back no matter how much we want to spend on it.
Edited by ghoti (05/22/10 09:49 PM)
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#187163 - 05/23/10 07:45 AM
Re: Obama & Calderon talk down Arizona law
[Re: ghoti]
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Greg
Member
Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 10000
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what a stupid game you all play, charge and levy large, real fines against the employers of undocumented employees and the majority of illegals will stop coming
Edited by Greg (05/23/10 07:47 AM)
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#187165 - 05/23/10 09:07 AM
Re: Obama & Calderon talk down Arizona law
[Re: Greg]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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The employers are breaking the law by hiring illegals but no one seems to ever mention prosecuting them as a solution. Unless we do that we'll never solve this.
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#187168 - 05/23/10 01:04 PM
Re: Obama & Calderon talk down Arizona law
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I see nothing wrong with Mexicans coming to the USA to work to the level of their skills and ability to get jobs but they should have to pay their own way for services and pay U.S. taxes and they should only be allowed to stay for a certain perod of time then stay out of the country for a designated wating period before returning on a new work visa. do think citizens of the country should have first shot at all jobs if they have the qualifications. Only citizens can vote. I think Mexicans add a lot to the value of our work force. Our government is our bottleneck and is totally screwed up!
Paul
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#187185 - 05/23/10 09:47 PM
Re: Obama & Calderon talk down Arizona law
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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Paul I
Member
Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 7913
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Does it matter that many, many of this immigrants, legal or illegal
had ancestors only a very few generations back that lived in Texas, AZ, NM and CA? Many chose to leave when it was no longer Mexico; many were driven out.
The Mexican culture underlies what came afterward. This is an interesting article about Santa Fe. It's not about its Mexican or Spanish history but it's in there.
http://travel.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/travel/23hours.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_California_to_1899
This was also pretty interesting but seemed to play down the native american and mexican history of the area.
There was a movement since I've been in AZ for the "natives" to take back NM and AZ.
I don't think this immigration problem is that cut ane dried of a situation.
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"...only the shadow knows"
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#187213 - 05/24/10 03:22 PM
Re: Obama & Calderon talk down Arizona law
[Re: Paul I]
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Greg
Member
Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 10000
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Does anyone know economically if "allowing" illegal immigration is a plus or minus? Prices for goods is kept down versus cost of unrecoverable social and health services, plus loss of taxation.
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#187237 - 05/25/10 05:09 PM
Re: Obama & Calderon talk down Arizona law
[Re: Greg]
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inkblister
Member
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 231
Loc: Land of Debris...
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I don't recall where I saw it, but I do remember seeing a program that stated that illegal immigrants are willing to work for significantly less than minimum wage... If they were to be paid at minimum wage, food at the grocery would cost up to 3x as much as we pay now and eating out (in NY and other major cities anyway) would cost up to 5x as much...
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I'm not outnumbered... I have a wide target selection...
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#187255 - 05/26/10 09:46 AM
Re: Obama & Calderon talk down Arizona law
[Re: inkblister]
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ghoti
Member
Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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IMO that's exactly what makes this a complex issue. I think everyone agrees that the criminal element needs to be dealt with forcibly, but the illegals who are here to work are a different story.
Simply rounding them all up and shipping them home might be an economic disaster for the US. They are all at least paying rent to landlords and also sales tax on the stuff they buy. I've heard that many illegals even pay income tax.
The jobs they are doing for sub-minimum wage are in many cases jobs that our own citizens would refuse to do, even if paid minimum wage. How many of our unemployed would be willing to pick fruit and vegetables in the hot sun for $8/hour?
A plan that seals our border more effectively against drug smugglers and other criminals is definitely needed. Additionally IMO we need to require the working illegals who have been here for years to register, pay all required taxes, and have a plan to become legal citizens in a set time or be sent home.
Combine that with aggressive enforcement of the existing laws against hiring any new illegals that cross our borders and we'd have a much better grip on the problem without possibly endangering our economy.
Edited by ghoti (05/26/10 09:47 AM)
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Feisty survivors populate this site. Avoid controversies unless you have a very thick skin.
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#187257 - 05/26/10 12:59 PM
Re: Obama & Calderon talk down Arizona law
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
Member
Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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I agree, Ghoti, America would be a better place if we could bring the illegals into the fold. Shipping all of them home is definately not the answer. It would not be excising a questionable growth of the American body but more like an amputation of an arm or leg. We need a real answer but like the Dr's. oath for healing the body...First do no harm!
Paul
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#187270 - 05/26/10 04:22 PM
Re: Obama & Calderon talk down Arizona law
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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inkblister
Member
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 231
Loc: Land of Debris...
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Wow Paulwa... I'm impressed!... A well thoughtout and thoughtful response!... Bravo!... 
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I'm not outnumbered... I have a wide target selection...
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#187299 - 05/27/10 02:20 PM
Re: Obama & Calderon talk down Arizona law
[Re: inkblister]
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YosemiteSam
Member
Registered: 05/20/00
Posts: 5386
Loc: No. Calif. (SF Bay Area)
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The Bracero Progtram (1942-1964) started as a WWII source of farm labor. It had some problems, but in my recollection was preferable to what goes on today.
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Bob
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