#186081 - 04/24/10 04:32 PM
The Book of Thomas
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ghoti
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Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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This book is basically a list of sayings by Jesus as compiled by a man named Thomas, who claimed to be one of his followers. Many of the sayings are nearly identical to those quoted in the 4 main Gospels but there are some notable differences.
This book is totally omitted from most Protestant Bibles but is included as a part of the Apocrypha in Catholic Bibles. If you've never read it, here's a link to the complete book:
http://reluctant-messenger.com/gospel-thomas-Messrs-Brill_of_Leiden.htm
Anybody have any comments about Thomas? Here are a few quotes that I find place interesting new insights on Jesus that differ from traditional views
(3) Jesus said: If those who lead you say unto you: Behold, the Kingdom is in heaven, then the birds of the heaven will be before you. If they say unto you: It is in the sea, then the fish will be before you. But the Kingdom is within you, and it is outside of you. When you know yourselves, then shall you be known, and you shall know that you are the sons of the living Father. But if ye do not know yourselves, then you are in poverty, and you are poverty.
(46) Jesus said: From Adam to John the Baptist there is none born of woman who is higher than John the Baptist, so that his eyes will not be broken (?) But I have said, He who shall be among you as a little one shall know the kingdom, and shall be higher than John.
(67) Jesus said: He who knows the All but fails (to know) him-self lacks everything.
(77) Jesus said: I am the light that is over them all. I am the All; the All has come forth from me, and the All has attained unto me. Cleave a (piece of) wood: I am there. Raise up the stone, an ye shall find me there.
(95) [Jesus said]: If you have money, do not lend at interest, but give [it] to him from whom you will not receive them back.
(I07) Jesus said: The kingdom is like a shepherd who had hundred sheep. One of them, the biggest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine and sought after the one till he found it. When he had laboured, he said to the sheep: I love thee more than the ninety-nine.
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#186082 - 04/24/10 04:52 PM
Re: The Book of Thomas
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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This Thomas may have been there and heard Jesus and quoted Jesus but I don't think he understood a word Jesus said. I think he was one of those who Jesus said to his disciples, 'I speak to you in parables" so Thomas was one of the people Jesus hid the truth fromm maybe with the parables. This Thomas writings is truly uninspired and apparently those who worked at cannonizing the bible thought so too. That is why it was discarded into the phoney books of the apochrapha. they are just interestng historical writings but who knows whether there is an ounce of truth in any of the writings.
Paul
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#186083 - 04/24/10 05:12 PM
Re: The Book of Thomas
[Re: ghoti]
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flicka
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Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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I think Thomas was drunk when he wrote this:
(114) Simon Peter said to them: Let Mary go forth from among us, for women are not worthy of the life. Jesus said: Behold, I shall lead her, that I may make her male, in order that she also may become a living spirit like you males. For every woman who makes herself male shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#186084 - 04/24/10 05:28 PM
Re: The Book of Thomas
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
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Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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I think he was one of those who Jesus said to his disciples, 'I speak to you in parables" so Thomas was one of the people Jesus hid the truth fromm maybe with the parables.
Hey, Jesus told Thomas a secret that he told no one else...well according to Thomas any:
(13) Jesus said to his disciples: Make a comparison to me, and tell me whom I am like. Simon Peter said to him: Thou art like a righteous angel. Matthew said to him: Thou art like a wise man of understanding. Thomas said to him: Master, my mouth will no wise suffer that I say whom thou art like. Jesus said: I am not thy master, because thou hast drunk, thou hast become drunk from the bubbling spring which I have measured out. And he took him, went aside, and spoke to him three words. Now when Thomas came to his companions, they asked him: What did Jesus say unto thee? Thomas said to them: If I tell you one of the words which he said to me, you will take up stones and throw them me; and a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up.
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#186085 - 04/24/10 05:48 PM
Re: The Book of Thomas
[Re: flicka]
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ghoti
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Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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The Book of Thomas quotes Jesus telling us to look inside ourselves to find truth. IMO that's the main reason it was excluded from the Bible and suppressed.
If we can find the truth inside ourselves then we don't need all those priests and religious leaders telling us what to believe and those folks would be out of a job. That's a pretty dangerous idea if you make your living off preaching.
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#186086 - 04/24/10 06:04 PM
Re: The Book of Thomas
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
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Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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Man is full of sin and short of days. He needs look to Jesus for salvation. There are always those around looking to make a buck off the unwary any way they can, yes even priests and preachers! If I was looking for truth I would not be looking to a Thomas.
Paul
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#186087 - 04/24/10 06:07 PM
Re: The Book of Thomas
[Re: ghoti]
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flicka
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Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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The Book of Thomas quotes Jesus telling us to look inside ourselves to find truth. IMO that's the main reason it was excluded from the Bible and suppressed.
I would agree except that it is included in the Catholic bible. If any church would worry about losing the "middleman" positions, I would think it would be Catholics.
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#186088 - 04/24/10 06:09 PM
Re: The Book of Thomas
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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flicka
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Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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If I was looking for truth I would not be looking to a Thomas.
I'm assuming this Thomas is also "Doubting" Thomas?
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#186091 - 04/24/10 06:24 PM
Re: The Book of Thomas
[Re: flicka]
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Paulwa_dup1
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Not sure..
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#186092 - 04/24/10 06:25 PM
Re: The Book of Thomas
[Re: flicka]
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ghoti
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Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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There is definitely a disciple named Thomas mentioned in the Gospels. His book is included in the Apocrypha of the Catholic Bible now, but the status and power of the priesthood and church hierarchy are firmly established. When the Bible was first compiled back around 400 AD the Book of Thomas was ferociously suppressed.
IMO the Apocrypha contains some pretty interesting stuff and those books were left out of the bible by vote of a bunch of priests way back then. Their motivations may have been driven by other things than just the pursuit of truthfulness.
Edited by ghoti (04/24/10 06:28 PM)
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#186093 - 04/24/10 06:45 PM
Re: The Book of Thomas
[Re: ghoti]
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flicka
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Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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When the Bible was first compiled back around 400 AD the Book of Thomas was ferociously suppressed.
One thing I find amusing is how women are generally noted as in a subservient position in the bible. I find that very telling. Even my own dear father once claimed that "the church started going downhill when they let women sit on the same side as men." 
Edited by flicka (04/24/10 06:46 PM)
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#186094 - 04/24/10 06:55 PM
Re: The Book of Thomas
[Re: flicka]
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flicka
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Posts: 24616
Loc: SLO County, CA - 66.122.77.142
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Here's an interesting wikipedia take on the gospel of Thomas.
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"A lot of things were acceptable--until we stopped accepting it." -- Al Sharpton '12
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#186095 - 04/25/10 09:35 AM
Re: The Book of Thomas
[Re: flicka]
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ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Women's rights certainly weren't given much consideration back in those days, and Thomas is no exception.
I realize that anyone who accepts the Bible as the absolute word of God will automatically reject writings like the Book of Thomas, but IMO it's interesting to see that there were other views of Jesus back in the early days than just those that made it into the New Testament.
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#186096 - 04/25/10 10:04 AM
Re: The Book of Thomas
[Re: ghoti]
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Paulwa_dup1
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Registered: 02/12/05
Posts: 4951
Loc: Washington
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There is also a so called book of Judas. Now Thomas and Judas, there'sa pair to draw too.:-) Atheists are dragging whatever thing they can to discredit the bible and we know who is ultimately behind them and their effort.
Paul
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#186098 - 04/25/10 11:55 AM
Re: The Book of Thomas
[Re: Paulwa_dup1]
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ghoti
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Registered: 04/06/02
Posts: 8469
Loc: Ishpeming, MI 75.128.229.255
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Understandable that you feel that way, Paulwa, but I find these things interesting. The Book of Thomas and other similar texts were written within the same time frame as the rest of the New Testament.
During those early years before the Bible was compiled in its modern form large numbers of Christians accepted them as true accounts. The views of Jesus from some groups back then differed significantly from the modern-day one.
The single unified view only came into being after the Bible was compiled.
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